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Valve grinding... Not allowed or...? (Read 339 times)
Mekh
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Valve grinding... Not allowed or...?
11/10/16 at 11:12:10
 
My exhaust valves looks like they would benefit from being lapped/ground, but... in Clymers manual it says they cannot be ground and must be replaced if defective.

Really? I have to replace them if they are not ok?

Bonus question: how do I remove the valve seal correctly? Just pull them off with a plier?
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Dave
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Re: Valve grinding... Not allowed or...?
Reply #1 - 11/10/16 at 12:16:06
 
The valves cannot be ground.  The valves are made very light and thin, and I believe they have a very thin hardening layer applied.  If you grind them the edges get too thin, and they exhaust valves will burn away.

The valve seal pulls off....don't get them crooked and pry, get them off as straight as possible or you can break the valve guide.
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Mekh
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Re: Valve grinding... Not allowed or...?
Reply #2 - 11/10/16 at 13:10:43
 
Thanks. Seals came off fine. Just did not dare pulling or prying much, when I was not sure how they were fixed in place.

So... If I cannot grind the valves, can I expect a tight seal between new exhaust valves and the valve seats?
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Re: Valve grinding... Not allowed or...?
Reply #3 - 11/10/16 at 13:17:55
 
You can lap the seals with "Valve Grinding Compound" paste to confirm they are bedded into the seats - you should not put a valve in a valve grinding machine and take any metal off the valve with a grinding wheel or cutter.

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Mekh
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Re: Valve grinding... Not allowed or...?
Reply #4 - 11/10/16 at 13:49:34
 
Ahh, ok...  That was actually what I meant.
Good to hear, since the renovation costs seems to be going up a bit too much to my liking.

Something like this is what I have in mind: https://youtu.be/5a71QWTogmE
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Dave
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Re: Valve grinding... Not allowed or...?
Reply #5 - 11/10/16 at 13:59:35
 
That fellow is overdoing it.....he said he had been grinding for about 5 minutes!

You just want to scuff the valves in to confirm the valves are seating.  Use a black marker to die the surface of the valve (or Prussian blue if you have it).  Then use the grinding past just until the color is scrubbed off where the valve is touching the seat.  If you have any areas that don't clean up with 15-20 second of grinding - the valve most likely will need to be replaced.  When you begin to grind you will hear the rough sound, then after a few seconds the sound will smooth out - lif the valve up and it will pull the compound back into the surface between the valve and seat, then grind again until the gritty sound goes away.....repeat this just 4 or 5 times and then pull the valve out and wipe it off and look at the valve....it should have a dull silver strip all the way around.

(Mower valves are different - they are thick and heavy and can be ground easily, as there is plenty of material that can be removed).
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Mekh
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Re: Valve grinding... Not allowed or...?
Reply #6 - 11/10/16 at 20:52:13
 
Thanks, appreciate the tips a lot.  ☺️
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Valve grinding... Not allowed or...?
Reply #7 - 11/11/16 at 05:54:30
 
Such technique and advice deserves a place in the tech section.
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Re: Valve grinding... Not allowed or...?
Reply #8 - 11/11/16 at 10:28:02
 
Don't forget grinding of valve and seat changes installed height of valve !
The seats can be lightly ground if needed , but grinding the valves is asking for trouble , replace them ! Once the valve has been cleaned and checked in guide for wear and your ok with reusing them , just lap them in as per what Dave (SuperDave) described. Lapping valves gives a view of how well valve is contacting the seat. A lot of people don't do it,I guess it's an old school thing,I won't assemble a head without doing it ! And when using lapping compound be very careful NOT to get it on the stem of the valve or anywhere near the guide and wash all parts before assembly and blow out the guides with air !
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« Last Edit: 11/11/16 at 14:35:08 by Ruttly »  

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Mekh
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Re: Valve grinding... Not allowed or...?
Reply #9 - 11/12/16 at 01:29:35
 
A thing confusing me here is the word "lapped".

To my previous knowledge and according to translators the "correct" word should be grinding/ground.

It seems that in the context of valves, grinding involves a machine (milling, drilling, lathe) of some kind. Where using a grinding compound to grind valves lightly is called "lapping" the valves and valve seat.

Reason  for writing the above is to better understand this,  and to help others that may find this grinding/lapping confusing.

Please let me know if the above is incorrect.

English is my second/third language,  so...  Smiley
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Re: Valve grinding... Not allowed or...?
Reply #10 - 11/12/16 at 03:14:02
 
When you grind the valves or valve seats (hardened metal inserts in the aluminum head), you create a new surface by removing metal with a grinding wheel or cutter.  This process leaves some very small grinding marks/scratches in the surface.

The valve grinding paste does not "grind" the valves or seats.....it is called that because the product is used after the valve grinding is completed using machinery.  The valve grinding paste is used to smooth out and remove the scratches the grinding left in the surface.  This process is called "lapping in the valves".

What you are doing is using the paste to smooth the surface and look for imperfections....you are not "grinding" the valves or seats with the paste.

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Mekh
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Re: Valve grinding... Not allowed or...?
Reply #11 - 11/12/16 at 05:38:19
 
Thank you for the explanation.

As mentioned by justin_o_guy2, the subject regarding grinding/lapping valves really should be condensed into a how-to with tips and tricks in the tech section.

I'm willing to try and make a post with a write-up, but guess I will need help from someone to actually place it in the right place and so on.

Should I give it a go, and then send it to.... who?
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Re: Valve grinding... Not allowed or...?
Reply #12 - 11/12/16 at 07:43:50
 
"My exhaust valves looks like they would benefit from being lapped/ground,"

Explain the words "Looks like they would benefit" ....

I would often say something like that just before I open a can of worms that never needed opening  Wink
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Mekh
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Re: Valve grinding... Not allowed or...?
Reply #13 - 11/12/16 at 08:39:04
 
Uneven carbon deposits around the valves and valve stems. I do not intend to just grind/lap away for the "fun"  of it.  Smiley

I intend to check with color on the surface of the valve seat first, then insert valve, rotate it back and forth a few degrees to get a feel of how oval and/or uneven it is. If all looks fine I will not do much if anything.
If however it looks like it's oval and/or uneven I will lap it a bit, then re-check... Rinse/repeat...
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Re: Valve grinding... Not allowed or...?
Reply #14 - 11/13/16 at 07:58:30
 
While you have the valves out you might want to do a little work on the exhaust port too. For the fun or it

Even the most dreaded & difficult jobs when building a bike are done just for the fun of it !!!
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