You are wasting your time, Dave.

He believes in his current oil's advertisements and showing him a bunch of VOA info and suggesting Lucas is not all it is cracked up to be FOR A SAVAGE would just be cruelty.    

He comes from BMW air head dry clutch, oil only in the engine land and he does not grok he needs a different sort of oil for a wet clutch engine (keep them plates from slippy slippy) while also providing what a high stress flat tappet system needs.

Plus, he puts in the Lucas "oil stabilizer" too -- and only his very own personal clutch plates will ever tell  him anything different.

If he wants to go play oil war, he can --- just show us clear label pictures of what you consider good Lucas oil and good Lucas "oil stabilizer".





Read and learn a bit .....     http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1478354612

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 11/08/16 at 20:42:49:




Nope.....4 springs.  Left/right - inner and outer!

Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 11/08/16 at 07:06:34:



While I will not contest too much with your opinion about the better oil!  However, I will put in a good word for Lucas.  LUCAS has a proven reputation for quality and great products - theirs is not simply an advertising campaign, but proven in the field.  This is NOT just due to an ignorant person simply believing an ad campaign.  What about your loyalty to the Shell product?  Based on fact?  Or opinion?

The ZDDP on the product is used is well over 1,000 and it is a semi-synthetic which has proven to have superior lubricity (not to mention heat resistance) over regular oils.

As far as the clutch slippage, I have not experienced any yet, and don't expect to, as they were aware of that possibility and provided a mixture that avoids that.

What I would like to know from you, is has ANY of you tested the LUCAS oil offerings and compared them to the SHELL that you are recommending?  It would seem to me that this would be a necessary function BEFORE you so brazenly attack LUCAS.

Finally, who came up with the number of 1,200 as the minimum ZDDP for oil for this Suzuki?

I am not contesting the oil question as I do not know, nor am I such a follower of LUCAS that I would defend them when if knew that they weren't correct, but I DO question your advice IF you have never done the appropriate testing - including testing on LUCAS products!

Finally, I have been riding motorcycles since I was 14 - some 50 years ago!  I worked at a Honda shop, a BMW shop and a shop that even sold Hodakas!  I have owned numerous Hondas, Yamahas, Bultacos, Hodakas, BMW's and yes, now a Suzuki, so I have been around the block a few times.  I don't know everything, which is why I asked the question that started this whole thread!

To respond to your suggestion about the valve tappets on that thread that showed significant wear on them, I would suggest that you really re-look at that thread,  It is CLEAR that the wear shown there was due to the bike having sat for a long period of time and the cam and rockers had rusted badly enough to create the pits.  Normal wear (including wear from poor lubrication (such as your being below the acceptable ZDDP level) would NOT cause pitting like that!  Running the bike after all that pitting would certainly give the results shown in the pics - no matter what oil one was using - NOT poor lubrication!

Typically, oil questions produce all sorts of opinions and also typically, they devolve into opinions rather than facts.  I just want facts.

Thank you for your kind reply.  I doubt, however that the 1,200 is a number that could be considered the benchmark.  Might be Shell's number in the oil you use, but that doesn't constitute a requirement.  Most upper-end wear happens at startup on a cold engine.  There are ways to compensate for this wear.  One is to use Lucas' oil stabilizer, which is why I do.  It eliminates an estimated 90% of cold starting wear, and that is a major part of all engine wear.

In the Lucas world, the oil stabilizer actually does cling to surfaces even after cool down, and thus does provide the protection needed at start up, and it also clings to surfaces such as cam and sliding rocker arms which also gives the anti-wear protection needed.  With Lucas' ZDDP well over 1,000 and its lubricity being partially synthetic and the extra wear protection of the stabilizer I think that part of the issue is covered.

I, like some of you, am also concerned about the wet clutch issues, and after conferring with a Lucas Engineer (I have had many calls off to him over the years) I am pretty sure that clutch slippage will not occur.  In the last 200+ miles there has been no such sign of clutch slippage.

Only time will tell about the wear on the upper end.

There was someone (maybe not you, I am not sure) who took pot-shots at me because, he implied, that I couldn't know because I migrated over from the BMW Airhead world,  Nothing could be farther from the truth.  I try to investigate almost everything from a scientific point of view, and one of the ways is to ask people who know and have had experience such at people here.  I just object to generalized statements without any other data than "I have used such and such, and never had a problem," and THEN attack other products without some sort of proof that that something else really IS inadequate.

I am hoping that this Suzuki will last me many years without many problems and will very likely be my last bike, as I am getting up there in years.  That's why, I decided to leave the old BMW Airhead world (I still think they may be the greatest bikes for the type of riding they were designed for) and purchased this Suzuki.  It was more manageable for me to maneuver around (pushing around the garage, etc) and also for getting on.  They had too high of a seat and it became more and more difficult for me simply to mount the thing, as I have some back issues from too much improper lifting over my life.

I still love to ride, and this Suzuki really fills the gap for me and my personal issues.  I hope it proves reliable and easy to maintain.

Only a couple of things that I wish I could change:  I wish it were a twin cylinder with twin carbs, and I also wish it were a little more of the older "sit-up" style (like the current new Triumphs).

I want to purchase a quick add-on windshield for colder months and be able to take it off during the warmer months.  There was one advertised for sale on this forum, but the fella hasn't contacted me back.

I have already read and pretty much understand the ZDDP issue, as there was a great guy on the BMW web site that actually did careful testing of about 20 oils and reported the results in the BMWMOA magazine.

The BMW people were very finicky about that sort of thing.

I have never in my life seen a engine have excessive wear or break  because of the oil used.  Only lack of it.

piedmontbuckeye:

Here is a link to the online owners manual - it has a chart that shows what viscosity you can use to match the temperature you are riding in.
http://www.savageriders.com/verslagen/transfer/2002_LS650P_Owners_Manual.pdf

Go ahead an use Lucas oil in your Savage if you want to, it most likely will be fine.  I use their synthetic gear oil in my Vibe transmission, I use their fuel system cleaners.....I like their products - but I don't use their engine oil as it is $ 9.99 a quart at Autozone......that is just short of $40 a gallon and I can get Rotella T for less than $15 a gallon.

Our members tend to be on a bit of a budget in most cases, and as such we don't promote the expensive oils when you can achieve lasting protection at much lower cost.  Here is a link to our recommended oils:

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1344471565


I used to spend money on expensive oils - but I have found that there really isn't any reason to.  Shell Rotella T will provide all the engine protection that is needed, and it will prevent my cars/tractors/motorcycles from having any oil related failures....and I am certain that I will never wear any of my engines out in my lifetime.

Good, he begins to understand some little bit about ZDDP .... now let's revisit the slipping clutch plates thing again.  The oil wetted clutch plates (his old BMW airhead buds have a dry clutch that does not share space with the engine oil at all so what the BMW guys recommend for additives might not be the best thing for a Savage).

Exactly which oil stabilizer exactly was he recommending from the BMW airhead guys, which exact Lucas product was that again ???

Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 11/13/16 at 18:03:49:


I believe he is using Lucas oil....straight from the bottle without any additional additives.

http://lucasoil.com/products/motorcycle-products/oils/lucas-high-performance-...