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Often battery draining and now wont start at all.. (Read 285 times)
Andreas
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Often battery draining and now wont start at all..
10/07/16 at 11:30:00
 
Hi guys,
I've to say that the last year or so I am not riding a lot (maybe once a week) so I always charge my battery the day before I ride. My trips would be around 1 hour all the way. My first question has to do with my battery performance. Is it normal for the battery to drain that fast? Keep in my mind that I replaced it last year with a new Yuasa battery.
To my bigger problem now...
I was heading to the beach last week and after about 5 minutes since I left home I stopped for a coffee. When I got back, the bike fired up normally and then all of the sudden and while I was holding the clutch it died! Ok (I said), lets fire up again. I pressed the engine start button but all I was hearing was the relay clicking and nothing else. No cranking, no nothing!!!  Angry
I called a friend and came there. I wired his car's battery on my bike and tried again. This time the bike was cranking like hell but nothing else. It seemed that the spark plug was not powering but i can't understand why... I eventually load the bike on his track and we headed back home.
I haven't troubleshoot anything yet as I wanted some guidelines from you about where to start.
Do you believe that the draining battery has something related to this problem?

Thanks,
Andreas
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Gary_in_NJ
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Re: Often battery draining and now wont start at a
Reply #1 - 10/07/16 at 11:35:01
 
Sounds to me like the side stand safety switch is at fault.

BTW, no need to charge a battery if the bike gets ridden every week.
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Re: Often battery draining and now wont start at a
Reply #2 - 10/07/16 at 11:36:35
 
The battery draining can either be a result of the battery being bad - or something on the bike is draining the battery.

New batteries can decide to go bad without much notice - especially AGM or Gell batteries.

You really need a voltmeter to test your battery to find out what it going on - that way you can test the battery voltage at rest, and also while under a load.

However.....you might try disconnecting the ground wire as soon as you are done riding - and then connect the battery back up the next day and see if you can start the bike (you are checking to see if the battery can hold a charge when it is not connected t the bike).
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Andreas
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Re: Often battery draining and now wont start at a
Reply #3 - 10/07/16 at 12:18:17
 
Gary_in_NJ wrote on 10/07/16 at 11:35:01:
Sounds to me like the side stand safety switch is at fault.

BTW, no need to charge a battery if the bike gets ridden every week.


Hi Gary,

correct me if I am wrong but I thing that the side stand switch comes in action only if you don't have neutral on. In my case I had it in neutral when I was trying to fire it up.
In addition, the bike was not cranking at all with my battery, but it was when I wired it up on the track's battery
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Re: Often battery draining and now wont start at a
Reply #4 - 10/07/16 at 20:18:07
 
You might check the ground cable were it connects to the motor ,near the oil sight glass.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Often battery draining and now wont start at a
Reply #5 - 10/07/16 at 20:21:07
 
I've to say that the last year or so I am not riding a lot (maybe once a week) so I always charge my battery the day before I ride.

That looks like a problem to me.
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Re: Often battery draining and now wont start at a
Reply #6 - 10/08/16 at 14:22:26
 
Agree, letting the battery sit for a week or more then recharging it, will age it more than keeping 100% on a smart charger like "Battery Tender Jr".

Once the battery is damaged then it will crank slower but not start the Savage.  Fyi 12.0vdc is appx 25% of max capacity for lead-acid battery, which will crank but not start.  I experienced this on the original battery, that's when I learned to push-start.  So what is your actual battery voltage?

Also you might as well set petcock to "prime" to rule out that fuel problem.
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Andreas
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Re: Often battery draining and now wont start at a
Reply #7 - 10/08/16 at 23:59:21
 
What do you guys mean? Am I getting it wrong with the battery? Is there any standard procedure for battery tendering or charging periods?

Anyway, today I started with some troubleshooting. I sprayed contact cleaner on all interlocks. I replaced the spark plug and checked the spark plug power wire. I found the problem on that wire for not powering on. I had replaced the standard plug a couple of years ago with an NGK one. It seems that after that time and with the vibrations on the bike it became loose.

Now for the battery:
Fully charged battery gives 12.7V (both leads connected on)
At idle, battery gives around 13.1V
Revving the engine, no significant change. Still around 13.1V   Undecided
That means that I have a problem with my charging circuit?

I will remove the ground lead at measure it again tomorrow. I will let you know about that.
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Re: Often battery draining and now wont start at a
Reply #8 - 10/09/16 at 04:12:31
 
To confirm the battery is good....you need to measure the voltage while the starter button is pushed and the starter motor is turning the engine over (under load).  Batteries can show a good voltage at rest - but not provide enough voltage when under a load - when this occurs there is not enough voltage to power the ignition circuit.
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Re: Often battery draining and now wont start at a
Reply #9 - 10/09/16 at 05:18:48
 
So, 12.7 is a good voltage for most batteries just sitting there.
As Dave said, hold the meter leads on while cranking to too how low the voltage drops. This will give you an idea how healthy the battery is. If it drops to 10 volts, it's probably tired.
The fact that the voltage goes to 13.1 at idle says that you have some amount of charging system. Staying at 13.1 when revved up means the charging system isn't up to snuff. Time to start the charging system poke-about.
Rotor is a permanent magnet. Not much to go wrong there.
Stator is a bunch of copper wires. Unplug the multi-pin connector going to the alternator. Check resistance across the fields and check each leg for short to ground.
Rectifier/Regulator is a bit tougher to test, as you can't isolate the regulator part. Using the diode test part of a digital meter, you can test the diodes in the rectifier. Look in the manual.
Regulator becomes a diagnosis of exclusion. If everything else is ok, then it is the Regulator. Sometimes the easiest way to test is to borrow a know good one and swap it out.
With the key off, set the meter to DC amps and place it inline between the neg post of the battery and ground. It should read zero or only a few milliamperes. More means a parasitic load, short, or bad diode in the R/R.
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Re: Often battery draining and now wont start at a
Reply #10 - 10/09/16 at 05:36:40
 
. I found the problem on that wire for not powering on. I had replaced the standard plug a couple of years ago with an NGK one. It seems that after that time and with the vibrations on the bike it became loose.

You did good. The Feel of a plug wire snapping into place, unless someone is familiar with it, and knows what it's Supposed to feel like, they could get close and it run for a while and then get troublesome.

As Dave said, gotta know what the battery voltage is under load to know what the battery is really doing.

Nobody can hear how quickly the starter is spinning your motor over but you. If it's spinning over the same but sometimes starting, sometimes not , then thinking it's Possibly an interlock or connection to an interlock isn't unreasonable.
AFAIK, you're the first who ran an intermittent start problem down and found the plug wire not seated right on the plug.
Maybe WD should have a look up that way before he puts an armor piercing round through the head on his.

We see tons of
Turns over but won't start
problems. It's most often battery or a crummy ground.

When someone is charging the battery regularly that is a bit of a red flag. Sounds to the people reading it like you're not trusting the battery to be healthy. New, nearly new, we Expect them to be healthy, but batteries can be crummy, before they should be.
That's why they have warranties.
And, without knowing what kinda charger, how many amps and how long, we can't get a feel for whether or not the charging of the battery has hurt the battery.

I hope you cleaned out the cavity the plug sits in.

Now we have  a new

Have you checked the__________,,,  

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Re: Often battery draining and now wont start at a
Reply #11 - 10/09/16 at 09:20:09
 
If you've got a constant current drain off of your battery, you should find and fix it.

There's nothing on the standard bike that uses power when the switch is off. I've heard of bad reg/rec slowly soaking power but it's not a common failure mode.  I've heard of lots of 3rd party stuff being installed in a way that uses power all the time instead of just when the bike is running.

You can find out if you have a vampire circuit by setting your VOM to the 10 AMPS scale and inserting it between the battery and the power lead. It can't measure cranking or even running power but it will easily tell you if you have something eating power when the engine's off.  More than a zero reading, you've got something on all the time and you'll have to track it down.

My battery is a flooded type and it's almost 4 years old.  I have no problems with it going dead. It's never been on a tender and only been charged a couple times when the stator on my bike died.  My bike rarely sits for a week even in the winter but it's always got plenty of starting power whenever I hit the button.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Often battery draining and now wont start at a
Reply #12 - 10/09/16 at 09:26:56
 
Wouldn't a test light connected in series with either the ground or positive lead do the job?
If it lights, pull a fuse.
Etc..
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Steve H
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Re: Often battery draining and now wont start at a
Reply #13 - 10/09/16 at 19:01:54
 
It will do the same job.
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Andreas
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Re: Often battery draining and now wont start at a
Reply #14 - 10/10/16 at 00:27:38
 
I've checked for parasitic current with the key at OFF position and the result was zero, even in the μA scale! I was measuring around 0.4mA when the key was in ON position.
It does now make sense that I might actually have an issue with my charging system. I'll use the guidelines you gave me among with some other posts I was searching in here and I'll let you know.

Thanks guys
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