SuzukiSavage.com - Observations on a high mileage engine tear down

justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Observations on a high mileage engine tear dow Reply #90 - 10/25/16 at 06:15:19 That's just wildly amazing. All the times that piston changed directions and all the times the fuel slammed into the compression ring,, just wow..
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youzguyz

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Re: Observations on a high mileage engine tear dow
Reply #91 - 10/25/16 at 06:27:10

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 10/25/16 at 06:15:19:

That's just wildly amazing. All the times that piston changed directions and all the times the fuel slammed into the compression ring,, just wow..

Thought I had posted this earlier.. guess not

Info on the old rings
thickness
Top 1.13 tolerance is 1.175 to 1.190
2nd 1.16 tolerance is same as top

free end gap
Top 11.2 normal is 11.5 limit is 9.2
2nd 11.4 normal is 14.0 limit is 11.2

I forgot to measure cylinder end gap when I pulled the piston. Then I busted the 2nd ring getting it off, then I had the cylinder honed, so.. no way to measure now.

They did their job, and were about worn out.

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youzguyz

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Re: Observations on a high mileage engine tear dow
Reply #92 - 10/25/16 at 14:21:34

Valve measurements from Lancer:

Valve guide ID: EX. 7.11mm, 7.19mm; IN. 7.13mm, 7.22mm
Spec. # 7.000-7.015mm
(all guides exceed spec's)

Valve stem OD: EX. 6.94mm, 6.94mm; IN 6.94mm, 6.93mm
Spec. # EX. 6.945-6.960mm, IN. 6.960-6.975mm
(exhaust at the bare minimum; both intake below minimum)

Valve stem to guide clearance: EX. 0.17mm, 0.25mm; IN. 0.19mm, 0.29mm
Spec. # EX. 0.040-0.070mm, IN. 0.025-0.055mm, max ware limit 0.35mm for EX & IN.
(both EX & IN are outside the spec # {the ideal number}, but have not reached the max wear limit.

Valve Springs:
Inner: EX. 36.29mm, 36.43mm; IN. 36.13mm, 36.52mm
Outer: EX. 40.77mm, 40.69mm; IN. 40.76mm, 40.69mm
Spec. # (outer wear limit): Inner 35.6mm; Outer 40.4mm
(all Inner and outer springs are still within limits but are very close, Inner. 0.5-0.9mm;
,Outer 0.3-0.4mm)

Sooooo.. to put it bluntly.. WORN OUT!

Just replace it all.. Leave something weak or close to limit is asking for too much trouble too soon.

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LANCER Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Savage Beast Performance Parts Posts: 10666 Oklahoma Gender:	Re: Observations on a high mileage engine tear dow Reply #93 - 10/25/16 at 14:33:55 *They look a lot better with all the carbon removed.* BEFORE AFTER
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gizzo Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiCabbage. It's Savage. Posts: 1318 Australia	Re: Observations on a high mileage engine tear dow Reply #94 - 10/25/16 at 19:22:27 justin_o_guy2 wrote on 10/18/16 at 04:14:17: I don't know how important that gaskets thickness is in the engine. Gosh, that Could slightly increase compression. It will have an effect on the squish band. Whether its a good or bad effect, I don't know. Anyone have a head off to check?
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youzguyz

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Re: Observations on a high mileage engine tear dow
Reply #95 - 10/26/16 at 02:11:56

gizzo wrote on 10/25/16 at 19:22:27:

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 10/18/16 at 04:14:17:

I don't know how important that gaskets thickness is in the engine. Gosh, that Could slightly increase compression.

It will have an effect on the squish band. Whether its a good or bad effect, I don't know. Anyone have a head off to check?

What do you need checked?

Squish band will increase because the piston won't be moving as far up the cylinder. By the amount of a very thin film of ultra grey under a lot of pressure.

The impact will be "bad", but not measurable as far as hp, mpg, 0 to 60, or any other performance characteristic that anyone could care about.

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LANCER Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Savage Beast Performance Parts Posts: 10666 Oklahoma Gender:	Re: Observations on a high mileage engine tear dow Reply #96 - 10/26/16 at 07:59:39 Are you talking about a spray on film, or brush on ? I just don't see it making a difference. Even if you brushed on a thicker coat it will squish out.
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youzguyz

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Re: Observations on a high mileage engine tear dow
Reply #97 - 10/26/16 at 08:16:30

LANCER wrote on 10/26/16 at 07:59:39:

Are you talking about a spray on film, or brush on ?
I just don't see it making a difference.
Even if you brushed on a thicker coat it will squish out.

Brush on yamabond 4. then spread it even thinner with a swipe of the finger.
The only difference I want it to make is easier removal if and when.

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verslagen1

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Re: Observations on a high mileage engine tear dow
Reply #98 - 10/26/16 at 08:55:58

youzguyz wrote on 10/26/16 at 08:16:30:

LANCER wrote on 10/26/16 at 07:59:39:

Are you talking about a spray on film, or brush on ?
I just don't see it making a difference.
Even if you brushed on a thicker coat it will squish out.

Brush on yamabond 4. then spread it even thinner with a swipe of the finger.
The only difference I want it to make is easier removal if and when.

Are you suggesting to NOT use a standard head gasket?
I don't know the spec's for yamabond4, but most likely it will burn out.
You'll need something like a copper wire around the cylinder to prevent it. Even with the copper sheet they apply the rtv to prevent leaks. So, it'll squish out to nothing.

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youzguyz

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Re: Observations on a high mileage engine tear dow
Reply #99 - 10/26/16 at 09:20:41

verslagen1 wrote on 10/26/16 at 08:55:58:

youzguyz wrote on 10/26/16 at 08:16:30:

LANCER wrote on 10/26/16 at 07:59:39:

Are you talking about a spray on film, or brush on ?
I just don't see it making a difference.
Even if you brushed on a thicker coat it will squish out.

Brush on yamabond 4. then spread it even thinner with a swipe of the finger.
The only difference I want it to make is easier removal if and when.

Are you suggesting to NOT use a standard head gasket?
I don't know the spec's for yamabond4, but most likely it will burn out.
You'll need something like a copper wire around the cylinder to prevent it. Even with the copper sheet they apply the rtv to prevent leaks. So, it'll squish out to nothing.

No.
This is for the cylinder BASE gasket, not the head gasket.
I will use the OEM cylinder base gasket, but I will put a very very thin layer of yamabond on it as well.

The OEM HEAD gasket is metal, and it goes on by itself. If any RTV would ever be used on that it would need to be the copper intense heat kind.
Like this:
https://www.permatex.com/products/gasketing/gasket-sealants/permatex-copper-s...

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gizzo

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Re: Observations on a high mileage engine tear dow
Reply #100 - 10/26/16 at 13:33:24

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 10/18/16 at 04:14:17:

What do you need checked?

Squish band will increase because the piston won't be moving as far up the cylinder. By the amount of a very thin film of ultra grey under a lot of pressure.

The impact will be "bad", but not measurable as far as hp, mpg, 0 to 60, or any other performance characteristic that anyone could care about

youre probably right, it won't matter. But if Youre leaving out the base gasket and using goo,the piston will travel further up the bore and squish will increase (squish band gets smaller). It could be a good thing. Some Enfield guys have reported good results doing just this. The squish on them is like 1.5mm. Leaving the base gasket out makes it better and apparently cures some detonation issues. Just thought I'd mention it.

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youzguyz

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Re: Observations on a high mileage engine tear dow
Reply #101 - 10/26/16 at 14:12:16

gizzo wrote on 10/26/16 at 13:33:24:

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 10/18/16 at 04:14:17:

What do you need checked?

Squish band will increase because the piston won't be moving as far up the cylinder. By the amount of a very thin film of ultra grey under a lot of pressure.

The impact will be "bad", but not measurable as far as hp, mpg, 0 to 60, or any other performance characteristic that anyone could care about

youre probably right, it won't matter. But if Youre leaving out the base gasket and using goo,the piston will travel further up the bore and squish will increase (squish band gets smaller). It could be a good thing. Some Enfield guys have reported good results doing just this. The squish on them is like 1.5mm. Leaving the base gasket out makes it better and apparently cures some detonation issues. Just thought I'd mention it.

The gasket will stay in. I am trying to stay at stock as much as I can. No particular reason beyond learning what breaks next on this machine as long as you keep fixing what broke.
Thanks for the info!

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gizzo Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiCabbage. It's Savage. Posts: 1318 Australia	Re: Observations on a high mileage engine tear dow Reply #102 - 10/26/16 at 15:29:35 Oh, right. I misread it and thought you were leaving the gasket out and just using the goo. Thanks .
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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Observations on a high mileage engine tear dow Reply #103 - 10/26/16 at 21:05:27 gizzo wrote on 10/26/16 at 15:29:35: Oh, right. I misread it and thought you were leaving the gasket out and just using the goo. Thanks . That's how I was reading it. I was concerned..
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youzguyz

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Re: Observations on a high mileage engine tear dow
Reply #104 - 12/03/16 at 13:44:55

Re-assembly is under way. No "major" ooops yet.

I know a proper break in is important, and I intend to stick to the rules:
no more than 1/3 throttle for 1st 500 miles. Vary throttle as much as possible, Change oil and filter at 500 miles.

Question. What should I use for "break in" oil? Clymers says single weight oil for that purpose.
Better question.. what have some of you that have done the over bore, piston replace, etc used for a break in oil?

Thanks!

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