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Cam chain tensioner mod question (Read 532 times)
cheapnewb24
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Cam chain tensioner mod question
08/09/16 at 13:53:45
 
Alright, I got my head bolt drilled out. I'll tell you about that later. I am about to let that same machinist do my tensioner mod too. We pulled the case and removed the tensioner to inspect it.

We weren't quite settled on the exact specifications of the mod. For a long time, he was afraid to extend it much because he thought there would be too much pressure. But I could compress the spring into the eyelet end tube shaft with my thumb and I could put the thing together and compress it with my bare hands. I let him handle it then, and he said it wouldn't be too bad. He was also very doubtful about the necessity of the roll pin. He said that the chain would come together and be ready to break at that point. But as I'm writing, I just figured it out. The biggest thing that's for is for the first eyelet on a new chain. So if I buy a new chain, the roll pin will matter more? Probably?

Anyway.... Here's a question that might interest you that might never have been asked. Would it benefit me to shorten the spring? I seem to recall one person actually replacing the factory spring with a weaker one in order to reduce wear on the chain.

Any comments on the amount of compression? 2-3 teeth out on the shaft doesn't seem too bad. As long as it catches one tooth, it ought to work okay.

I'm going to do some final research tonight and take it to him in the morning to get the job done. He's going to leave for Florida Thursday, so I need to get this figured out tonight. I appreciate your feedback if you have any.


If Verslagen isn't interested in helping, I can respect that.  

Smiley

Thanks,

Cheapy
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Re: Cam chain tensioner mod question
Reply #1 - 08/09/16 at 13:59:19
 
My advice:  Feedback will hopefully be provided.  If so, USE IT. These folks know what's going.  Skilled as your machinist may be, he doesn't know this bike!

Good luck!
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Re: Cam chain tensioner mod question
Reply #2 - 08/09/16 at 14:11:19
 
Here is my 2 cents worth, or maybe worth a hay penny...
Look at a pic, judge it by the size of the original hole, is there one holes space between the two holes?
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Re: Cam chain tensioner mod question
Reply #3 - 08/09/16 at 14:21:41
 
cheapnewb24 wrote on 08/09/16 at 13:53:45:
We weren't quite settled on the exact specifications of the mod. For a long time, he was afraid to extend it much because he thought there would be too much pressure. But I could compress the spring into the eyelet end tube shaft with my thumb and I could put the thing together and compress it with my bare hands. I let him handle it then, and he said it wouldn't be too bad. He was also very doubtful about the necessity of the roll pin. He said that the chain would come together and be ready to break at that point.
Typically, at half the allowed chain stretch, the plunger is out 19mm [.748"]
So, to get full stretch add another hole.  And yes at 19mm spacing, the chain will get real close to locking on itself.  So you don't need that much, 5/8 is fine.  And it will push the plunger back in to day 1.

Quote:
But as I'm writing, I just figured it out. The biggest thing that's for is for the first eyelet on a new chain. So if I buy a new chain, the roll pin will matter more? Probably?

Grenades need a pin, if he doesn't want to do it, send it to me with $10 and it'll get done.

Quote:
Anyway.... Here's a question that might interest you that might never have been asked. Would it benefit me to shorten the spring? I seem to recall one person actually replacing the factory spring with a weaker one in order to reduce wear on the chain.

So if you shorten the spring by a couple of coils, you remove the pretention, but as you compress the spring it is stiffer (less coils, same compression, get a degree and you'll understand)
So unless you can find a spring with the same number of coils, same length but smaller wire diameter, I don't think it's a benefit to shorten the spring.

Quote:
Any comments on the amount of compression? 2-3 teeth out on the shaft doesn't seem too bad. As long as it catches one tooth, it ought to work okay.

As long as the pawl engages the plunger fully, no problem.
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Re: Cam chain tensioner mod question
Reply #4 - 08/09/16 at 15:31:57
 
Thanks, Versy. I really appreciate your help. I was tempted to disagree on the spring thing, but I think I understand now. While shortening it will remove the length of spring to be compressed, which would give the impression of lightening the load, it cancels itself out when you consider the fact that each little bit of that spring compresses (or gives a little, and when you remove a piece, it can't compress as far as easily because there's not as much material left to give. Am I on track here?

If I have issues with this guy, I'll certainly send it your way. Smiley

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Re: Cam chain tensioner mod question
Reply #5 - 08/10/16 at 09:52:43
 
Got it modded. Paid $100 for it. The maximum travel is now 18 mm. I was indecisive about how far to drive the roll pin, and he drove it slightly too far. It rubs the spring a little. He thought it would be okay. What do you think?
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Re: Cam chain tensioner mod question
Reply #6 - 08/10/16 at 09:58:32
 
Hey Verslagen, do you think the cheap chain they use in these things just hasn't been properly stretched or broken in? I gather you've driven your modded bike for a long time. Doesn't it still have the original chain?
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Re: Cam chain tensioner mod question
Reply #7 - 08/10/16 at 10:00:24
 
Might be ok if you have a new style spring.
Not ok if it's an old style, the bigger diameter jams.
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Re: Cam chain tensioner mod question
Reply #8 - 08/10/16 at 10:07:55
 
cheapnewb24 wrote on 08/10/16 at 09:58:32:
Hey Verslagen, do you think the cheap chain they use in these things just hasn't been properly stretched or broken in? I gather you've driven your modded bike for a long time. Doesn't it still have the original chain?

New isn't stretched or broken in.
Cheap usually stretches or breaks.

So... you're broken shiny thing?   Huh
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Re: Cam chain tensioner mod question
Reply #9 - 08/10/16 at 10:20:45
 
verslagen1 wrote on 08/10/16 at 10:00:24:
Might be ok if you have a new style spring.
Not ok if it's an old style, the bigger diameter jams.


It's a 2004. The spring is considerably smaller than the hole. Does that sound about right?

I can remove the tensioner and post a video of its movement if you need me to.
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Re: Cam chain tensioner mod question
Reply #10 - 08/10/16 at 10:24:43
 
verslagen1 wrote on 08/10/16 at 10:07:55:
cheapnewb24 wrote on 08/10/16 at 09:58:32:
Hey Verslagen, do you think the cheap chain they use in these things just hasn't been properly stretched or broken in? I gather you've driven your modded bike for a long time. Doesn't it still have the original chain?

New isn't stretched or broken in.
Cheap usually stretches or breaks.

So... you're broken shiny thing?   Huh


You're saying I'm a broken shiny thing? Sounds about right... Well, at least I'm shiny!
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Re: Cam chain tensioner mod question
Reply #11 - 08/11/16 at 18:07:47
 
I pulled the tensioner to make a video for inspection purposes, and put it in the house since it was late. I then decided I would pull the clutch bolts in order to inspect the clutch plates and such. While breaking a bolt loose, the engine ploped over a bit. I then realized that, without the tensioner, there is the possibility that the cam chain could jump time. Should I be worried???

I know... I know... Just call me Dennis... Roll Eyes
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Re: Cam chain tensioner mod question
Reply #12 - 08/11/16 at 18:26:56
 
What do you think? Did he do a good job? Is it safe and good to go? Seems like it's not rubbing quite as bad as it did before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKnrQpQAMh8&feature=youtu.be

I discovered that my clutch nut is a little loose I can wiggle it with my fingers. The lock tab is still bent up to hold it, though. Could that be causing any issues? It was getting dark, so it's pretty hard to see what's going on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TillY99Cxkw&feature=youtu.be



By the way, my clutch rod external measurement is approximately 12mm.
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Re: Cam chain tensioner mod question
Reply #13 - 08/11/16 at 21:46:05
 
looks like a good job, grind that roll pin back near flush.
The action looks good, I hear it clicking, but it doesn't go that fast.

12mm   Smiley

I tried to see if the chain will jump with the tensioner out and I couldn't do it... but I know you're special.   Grin
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Re: Cam chain tensioner mod question
Reply #14 - 08/27/16 at 18:47:49
 
Got the excess ground down on that roll pin. Put it in. Recently I found the following photo in the Motorcycle Handyman download.

I used the old circlip, and I've noticed that there may be some concern about old circlips. Should I be concerned? Is this a worthwhile mod, or will the silicone peel off and stop up the engine?  Undecided Not sure I have the right type of RTV.
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