SuzukiSavage.com - Go ahead, make my day...

WebsterMark

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Re: Go ahead, make my day...
Reply #30 - 08/10/16 at 04:49:37

The stats I found on straw purchases indicate that around 40-50% of guns used in a crime are illegally obtained in straw purchases, again, stats are kinda hard to find and are often on biased sites, like the Brady campaign site, or pro gun sites, both with opposing stats.

Actually, its fairly easy to find. Less than 2% up until the late 90's and then less than 1% thereafter.

This is a demonstration of typical liberal dishonestly. Somewhere today, Hilary Clinton will once again make the Democratic call for gun control, closing the gunshow loophold and once again, NBC Nightly news will report that like it's gospel and salvation to all would come if it wasn't for that evil monster, the NRA. Of course, anyone with a brain already knows guns used to murder rarely come from this mysterious gun show loophold.

I really think the awareness of the average liberal is so low, if Hilary announced she was going to introduce a major initiative to reduce crime and called it her MCI plant and then at her announcement said her plan was to Make Crime Illegal, that the networks would report that as some kind of breakthrough and she'd get elected in a landslide!

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HovisPresley Serious Thumper Offline Good Vibrations! Posts: 991 Midlands, UK Gender:	Re: Go ahead, make my day... Reply #31 - 08/10/16 at 05:01:54 "Actually, its fairly easy to find. Less than 2% up until the late 90's and then less than 1% thereafter." Link?
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WebsterMark Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 14062 Gender:	Re: Go ahead, make my day... Reply #32 - 08/10/16 at 09:40:10 Look it up. Whatever source I link will be trashed anyway so do it yourself. Will only take a minute. And as a personal observation, I've been to countless shows and I don't recall seeing the most common criminals who use guns in the US at these shows.
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verslagen1

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Re: Go ahead, make my day...
Reply #33 - 08/10/16 at 11:34:35

WebsterMark wrote on 08/10/16 at 09:40:10:

Look it up. Whatever source I link will be trashed anyway so do it yourself. Will only take a minute.
And as a personal observation, I've been to countless shows and I don't recall seeing the most common criminals who use guns in the US at these shows.

So... no democrats?... how can you tell? Grin

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LostArtist

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Re: Go ahead, make my day...
Reply #34 - 08/10/16 at 13:06:25

WebsterMark wrote on 08/10/16 at 04:49:37:

The stats I found on straw purchases indicate that around 40-50% of guns used in a crime are illegally obtained in straw purchases, again, stats are kinda hard to find and are often on biased sites, like the Brady campaign site, or pro gun sites, both with opposing stats.

Actually, its fairly easy to find. Less than 2% up until the late 90's and then less than 1% thereafter.

This is a demonstration of typical liberal dishonestly. Somewhere today, Hilary Clinton will once again make the Democratic call for gun control, closing the gunshow loophold and once again, NBC Nightly news will report that like it's gospel and salvation to all would come if it wasn't for that evil monster, the NRA. Of course, anyone with a brain already knows guns used to murder rarely come from this mysterious gun show loophold.

I really think the awareness of the average liberal is so low, if Hilary announced she was going to introduce a major initiative to reduce crime and called it her MCI plant and then at her announcement said her plan was to Make Crime Illegal, that the networks would report that as some kind of breakthrough and she'd get elected in a landslide!

here's a source

"In June of 2000, ATF published a study of 1,530 firearms trafficking investigations conducted during the period July 1996 – December 1998. That study, Following the Gun: Enforcing Federal Laws Against Firearm Traffickers,6 found that straw purchasing was the most common channel of illegal gun trafficking, accounting for almost one-half (46%) of all investigations, and associated with nearly 26,000 illegally trafficked firearms.7"

source: http://smartgunlaws.org/straw-purchases-policy-summary/

Here's another:

"Responding to a question of how they obtained their most recent handgun, the arrestees answered as follows: 56% said they paid cash; 15% said it was a gift; 10% said they borrowed it; 8% said they traded for it; while 5% only said that they stole it."

source: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html

and I can find many many articles about many trials against various pawn shops, Gander Mountain, and other legitimate firearm dealers for straw purchase selling - straw selling? and there is literature from pro gun lobbies about training on how to spot a straw buyer, and various states have started getting more involved with enforcing the laws against this as well, all of this is fairly recent too.

here's a fact sheet pdf from the National Shooting Sports Foundation
saying "don't lie for the other guy"
https://www.nssf.org/factsheets/PDF/strawPurchase.pdf
which all that is an ATF effort to reduce straw purchases

and there really are quite a number of criminal cases about straw purchases that you can google, so I'm doubting your 1% figure as any kind of realistic statistic

sorry I didn't supply all this before, arguing is getting quite tiresome because we all know it's not going to change anyone's mind anyway so why bother trying to use actual facts and figures to prove anything, you don't care anyway. your stat might be accurate of all straw purchases vs all purchases of guns, while my stats are more about guns USED IN CRIME.

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LostArtist

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Re: Go ahead, make my day...
Reply #35 - 08/10/16 at 13:34:44

WebsterMark wrote on 08/10/16 at 04:37:20:

LostArtist wrote on 08/09/16 at 12:40:18:

WebsterMark wrote on 08/09/16 at 09:44:52:

I would like to know the difference between Nazism and Islamic fundamentalism is.....

I'll give this a shot, the islamic fundamentalism gets messy though, sorry

Nazism is a mostly historical movement that held NATIONALISM (the FIRST part in NA ZI well actually it's three words "Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei" but the NAZI part comes from the first word and the first part of that word is National (NA) where as the second part is the Socialist part) and NAZI's main identity is a racist one where aryans (whitest of the whites) were the superior race, and Germany thought they were the whitest whites. so this extended into an ultimate nationalistic protectionist ideal (Germany First?? maybe) Hitler was a fascist that thought he was be suited to rule the world (what an ego on that guy)

so Nazism is an extreme racism and ethnic/national pride

Islamic fundamentalism is and extreme fundamental interpretation of Islam, that actually perverts Islam into whatever is needed to feed the rage individual leaders have towards whatever they feel is harming them, it's maybe a belief that extreme religious purity is the only way to live and everything else deserves to die. but, each individual leader has their own enemy, there's not like a blanket statement that both Boko Haram and ISIS and Al Queda all follow, So it's highly subjective as to what it's all about. But they all don't like outside intervention, they kinda have the same philosophy as Bush, (fight them over there or fight them here) Islamic fundamentalism is a lot harder to deal with because it's not a state, so we can't declare war on it, even though we have somehow.... and it's going to just end up playing whack-a-mole in the middle east, Defeat Al Queda, now there's ISIS, defeat ISIS and Boko Haram will have more people to call on, these people are in misery and they are striking out at whatever they feel is to blame, and they are perverting their own religion to justify their means.

Islamice fundamentalism: the perversion of Islam to justify the means and ends of their own extreme fundamental version of Islam (religious purity) trying to instate a theocracy even crazier than Iran.

Okay. I see very little difference. Most people are proud of their country (Michelle Obama excluded of course) and people tend to think their particular race has value. So Nazis took this to the extreme. They perverted a believe system ascribed to by many.

So to my point, you'd $hit your little brains out if Trump were to say we're going to welcome skinheads from Germany, but yet put Hilary on some kind of pedestal when she says we need to embrace immigrants from Syria. So far, haven't read of any skinheads running down 100 Jews in Paris.....

so, first, you have no idea what would make me "$nuts your little brains out" but thanks for insulting and belittling me nonetheless, shows your character

are the skin heads refugee skin heads or just normal skin heads? and yeah, there's a little risk that someone with nefarious purposes is going to come into our nation under the guise of being a refugee, but INSIDE our nation we have law enforcement agencies and other ways of keeping track of these people, I"m not against them going through more scrutiny than most immigrants, but a blanket ban, idk, again, just stinks of letting them win,

oh and I'm assuming you are referring to the attack in NICE where the Tunsian man used a truck to run over people celebrating Bastile day. First, that man had no known history to any terrorist organization and he wasn't even religious. Now he had some mental health issues that were left unresolved and signs of instability that way, but not terrorism. But he did start to sympathize with ISIS and was on the way to become radicalized, maybe was radicalized when he committed the act, I don't know what was in his mind then, some crazy devotion to religion or just gone crazy, idk

He was not a refugee from Syria

also, try to get the distinction between REFUGEE and IMMIGRANT clear

the key to BOTH Nazism and Islamic Fundamentalism is that they are BOTH EXTREME takes on something that pervert the very essence into a offensive position on it.

Patriotism is great, Nationalism, well, maybe a step to far,
Religion okay, Fundamentalism, well, maybe too much

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LostArtist

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Re: Go ahead, make my day...
Reply #36 - 08/10/16 at 13:37:44

WebsterMark wrote on 08/10/16 at 09:40:10:

Look it up. Whatever source I link will be trashed anyway so do it yourself. Will only take a minute.
And as a personal observation, I've been to countless shows and I don't recall seeing the most common criminals who use guns in the US at these shows.

are you confusing gun shows with straw purchases?

they are different things, I'm not arguing about the "gun show loophole"

and, ooohhhh you didn't seen any criminals, well, goosh, guess they aren't there, I mean you'd obviously recognize them since they all have neon signs pointing them out... that's what makes being a victim so confusing, couldn't they see the criminal coming???? silly victims

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Jerry Eichenberger

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Re: Go ahead, make my day...
Reply #37 - 08/10/16 at 14:25:23

I'm not going to foray into the gun arguments at all, but rather, return to an early theme. Lack of assimilation into what we have historically thought of as "America" is, to me, the reason that most people either hate, dislike, or distrust Muslims. They don't fit in, mostly. Especially the women in their garb. People naturally like to be around similar people, and Muslims aren't similar in anything, to the rest of "typical Americans".
During the wave of immigration in the late 1800s and early 1900s, the typical immigrant was white, European and Christian. Face it - that is the backbone of the U.S., at least so far.
I am of Swiss origin. Do I wear leather shorts and that funny looking hat with a feather sticking out? Do folks of any other European origin wear native attire as their everyday dress? In my suburb, we have many high tech companies that employ lots of Indians and Asian immigrants. Do they wear their native attire? No. How many Jewish people, outside of the ultra orthodox groups on the East coast wear their native attire? Almost none.
Yet Muslims are different, and most telling ,want to remain different. My next door neighbors are Muslims who have assimilated, and are a very nice family and I view them the same as the white, Catholic family on the other side. But they are rare. The husband owns several high end restaurants that all serve alcohol, but again, that is very unusual.
Until and unless Muslims assimilate into traditional American culture, attire and customs, and respect our English common law systems, they will continue to be met with skepticism, distrust, discrimination, and perhaps even outright hatred. The old saying of when in Rome, do as the Romans do is as valid today as it ever was. If you don't want to do that, don't move to Rome.

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LostArtist

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Re: Go ahead, make my day...
Reply #38 - 08/10/16 at 14:55:20

Jerry Eichenberger wrote on 08/10/16 at 14:25:23:

I'm not going to foray into the gun arguments at all, but rather, return to an early theme. Lack of assimilation into what we have historically thought of as "America" is, to me, the reason that most people either hate, dislike, or distrust Muslims. They don't fit in, mostly. Especially the women in their garb. People naturally like to be around similar people, and Muslims aren't similar in anything, to the rest of "typical Americans".
During the wave of immigration in the late 1800s and early 1900s, the typical immigrant was white, European and Christian. Face it - that is the backbone of the U.S., at least so far.
I am of Swiss origin. Do I wear leather shorts and that funny looking hat with a feather sticking out? Do folks of any other European origin wear native attire as their everyday dress? In my suburb, we have many high tech companies that employ lots of Indians and Asian immigrants. Do they wear their native attire? No. How many Jewish people, outside of the ultra orthodox groups on the East coast wear their native attire? Almost none.
Yet Muslims are different, and most telling ,want to remain different. My next door neighbors are Muslims who have assimilated, and are a very nice family and I view them the same as the white, Catholic family on the other side. But they are rare. The husband owns several high end restaurants that all serve alcohol, but again, that is very unusual.
Until and unless Muslims assimilate into traditional American culture, attire and customs, and respect our English common law systems, they will continue to be met with skepticism, distrust, discrimination, and perhaps even outright hatred. The old saying of when in Rome, do as the Romans do is as valid today as it ever was. If you don't want to do that, don't move to Rome.

what you got against Little China, or Little Greece, or Italian neighborhoods? There are Plenty of immigrants that haven't "melted" into the melting pot of America.

the problem you are having (as you admit) is that Muslim immigration to the US is fairly new, it takes a generation or two, I don't think they've been here all that long in general.

just as long as you don't think Muslim and terrorist are synonyms

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verslagen1

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Re: Go ahead, make my day...
Reply #39 - 08/10/16 at 15:11:29

LostArtist wrote on 08/10/16 at 14:55:20:

what you got against Little China, or Little Greece, or Italian neighborhoods? There are Plenty of immigrants that haven't "melted" into the melting pot of America.

On a recent visit to Spain, we went to dinner at a chinese restaurant.
Quite surprisingly, everyone spoke Spanish, and ordered in Spanish.
I go to chinatown here the room is abuzz in chinese.

So, I think you live a sheltered life if you think all that live here must assimilate.
And Lost... I think americans are in general much more forgiving of other cultures.

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raydawg

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Re: Go ahead, make my day...
Reply #40 - 08/10/16 at 15:14:27

Jerry, this is a misnomer. Politics and media are both agenda driven , and sad to say, truth isn't the motivation.
I have shared here how I work for the biggest maker of commercial aircraft. Not until I came to work here did I have a clue really to other cultures.
Sure. As LA says, little Italy or whatever, as if that really is nothing more than Disneyland being about dreams, it's to make money.
Anyway, to get to know these other cultures from all over the world has taught me so much, AND proven the press, etc, wrong, in the way they script scenarios....
I have talked to many Muslims, as well as Hindus, etc, and none of them have been rude, or see my inquisition as a threat, fact is, they welcomed the dialogue.
I am hoping this new tolerance toward the Muslim will help extend an more open and honest dialogue about religion as a whole, for here in the states some bad Christians seem to be the exampled herald as fact about believes.
At work they make accommodations for prayer, yeah baby. Amen!

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Jerry Eichenberger

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Re: Go ahead, make my day...
Reply #41 - 08/10/16 at 15:17:10

LA - You miss my point. The little European neighborhoods that you mention aren't different in attire, customs, and legal systems from the rest of us. They may have ethnic restaurants, but that's about it.
The same applies to my client who owns a Chinese restaurant. He serves Asian (mainly ) food, but he dresses as I do.
I don't know if Muslims will ever really want to assimilate. That's the real issue, isn't it?

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raydawg

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Re: Go ahead, make my day...
Reply #42 - 08/10/16 at 17:18:53

Jerry Eichenberger wrote on 08/10/16 at 15:17:10:

LA - You miss my point. The little European neighborhoods that you mention aren't different in attire, customs, and legal systems from the rest of us. They may have ethnic restaurants, but that's about it.
The same applies to my client who owns a Chinese restaurant. He serves Asian (mainly ) food, but he dresses as I do.
I don't know if Muslims will ever really want to assimilate. That's the real issue, isn't it?

No, it's not.
How are you using assimilate, to dress, look, behave like us, or to live by our governing rules?

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WebsterMark

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Re: Go ahead, make my day...
Reply #43 - 08/10/16 at 20:05:14

and, ooohhhh you didn't seen any criminals, well, goosh, guess they aren't there, I mean you'd obviously recognize them since they all have neon signs pointing them out... that's what makes being a victim so confusing, couldn't they see the criminal coming???? silly victims

Since I live in a major metropolitan area AND one that routinely shows up on the most dangerous cities in American AND I'm not affected by white guilt AND I don't worry about offending people, I'll be more clear: I don't recall seeing any black gangbangers at gun shows.

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Re: Go ahead, make my day...
Reply #44 - 08/10/16 at 20:31:50

WebsterMark wrote on 08/10/16 at 20:05:14:

and, ooohhhh you didn't seen any criminals, well, goosh, guess they aren't there, I mean you'd obviously recognize them since they all have neon signs pointing them out... that's what makes being a victim so confusing, couldn't they see the criminal coming???? silly victims

Since I live in a major metropolitan area AND one that routinely shows up on the most dangerous cities in American AND I'm not affected by white guilt AND I don't worry about offending people, I'll be more clear: I don't recall seeing any black gangbangers at gun shows.

Well of course not silly rabbit.....
They would have to pay for it, not a good place to get caught stealing Grin

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