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Clutch disengaged,no momentum (Read 514 times)
Dave
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Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum
Reply #30 - 08/02/16 at 04:46:29
 
The best thing to do is find a complete used clutch from eBay, or a member of this forum.  Your steel and fiber plates are most likely scorched.

This eBay listing seems a bit high.....but shipping is probably close to $ 20 alone.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/09-Suzuki-LS650-S40-Savage-Boulevard-Clutch-Basket-Co...

I probably have a set from a 4 speed engine that are good....I will look and see.

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jjthejetplane
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Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum
Reply #31 - 08/02/16 at 06:09:12
 
Here is what led us here:

I picked up a nail a few mos ago. I pulled it as it seemed to be on the outer side of the tire And not deep seated, drove it less than 3 mi to a tire shop and back home. I was maybe .1 mi from my house going uphill when the bike stopped moving forward. I was about midway up the hill so, my initial thought, even tho it hadn't happened at all to my recollection before was that my clutch had slipped. I kicked it up a gear but realized I hadn't actually slipped into neutral. There were cars behind me and so I continued to gas it for maybe another fifteen secs. When I realized it wasn't moving, I pulled it to the side and shut it off. I got it started again and half rode, half crab walked it home. It moved at a snails pace in first the short distance to my house. When I spoke with JOG the following day, he recommended I adjust the free play in my lever. I adjusted it so that it was all the way out, I believe  the furthest, loosest possible setting. I changed to Rotella T and tried again to get it running properly. I had the same snail pace of a ride in a circle around my block. I would say it was a 2-3 min ride, in first, shifting did nothing to change the speed/power. This was maybe .25 mi distance. I haven't moved it since.
Since then, I have checked the seating of the clutch lever several times, checked my front sprocket, and now, pulled the clutch case cover.
I rode the bike from No.Va to Charlotte and then to Atl. I didn't feel or notice any slippage.
The only difference that I noticed at all while riding was after I went down in Richmond, va. The pressure needed to pull in my clutch lever was significantly more. I posted asking if it was possible for that to happen and if it would affect performance as I laid the bike down on its left side. The shifter and the clutch lever at the handlebar were both slightly bent. I maintain I didn't feel the clutch slipping at all during my three day ride.
I have 25,642 mi on the odometer.
Besides forgetting to turn my gas on in Richmond the only other issue I had was unplugging that yellow cable under the tank outside Henderson,nc.
I can't even recall an instance where I had issue downshifting.
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Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum
Reply #32 - 08/02/16 at 08:49:01
 
JJ,I believe Dave is on the right track .You need a new /used clutch pac,as yours is damaged from heat.If you think the repair is something you can't take on ,I'd seek help,someone who knows bikes and has the tools , as there is other things besides the clutch pac that need to be checked on reassembly and adjustment.....I would like to know how many miles you drove the bike after the clutch became "harder to pull"and when it failed....I have an idea that the shift rod jumped out of the dish shaped depression in the arm in the side case and got jammed between the lever and the raised web in the case to the left in your picture, (thus the damage I see to that piece and slight wear in the web) this would act to make the rod longer and not allow full engagement of the clutch,(slight slipping ) that you might not have felt, while riding but would have caused the kind of wear and heat we're seeing over time an miles. I would also have you take the rod out and roll it on a flat surface (a piece of glass) with a flashlight behind it to make sure it is not bent.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum
Reply #33 - 08/02/16 at 09:00:14
 
I wouldn't even trust the springs.

Wasn't there a kink in the clutch cable after the tire shop worked on it?
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cheapnewb24
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Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum
Reply #34 - 08/02/16 at 09:03:22
 
Does she need the entire clutch pack? Can she just buy some plates and steels? Does she need to replace the steels as well as the frictions due to heat damage? Does the basket itself need to be replaced from heat damage, or is it salvageable?

Here's a used clutch basket.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/96-04-SUZUKI-SAVAGE-650-LS650P-OEM-CLUTCH-BASKET-2120...

Here's a Barnett Kevlar clutch kit... If you want something to grip --A performance clutch.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/95-14-Suzuki-LS650-Savage-Barnett-Complete-Clutch-Kit...

And here's some regular EBC brand friction plates (no steels)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EBC-REDLINE-Clutch-Kit-Suzuki-LS-650-1986-1988-1995-2...

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cheapnewb24
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Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum
Reply #35 - 08/02/16 at 09:05:01
 
If you can save the basket itself, you could buy the Barnett kit and get a clutch that will probably never slip again. The stock clutch is naturally soft, so...
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batman
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Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum
Reply #36 - 08/02/16 at 09:29:05
 
I'd be changing the wave washer and wave washer seat ,the heat could have ruined them,and what's another $20.00
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jjthejetplane
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Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum
Reply #37 - 08/02/16 at 09:30:50
 
I did have a slight kink after adjusting the clutch cable at the handlebars.
I drove roughly 450 mi after laying the bike down in rich. I felt the change in grip/pressure the entirety of the ride after laying it down. I know I drove a good 300 from Charlotte to atl. I took all back roads until I hit stone mountain.
I prob rode the bike for a week after arriving and then parked it for a month.i noticed the nail on my first trip out and thus began the unraveling.

I am not by any definition an expert on this bike but i trust my hands. I'd like help but only from someone who is well-versed in savages and I've yet to find anyone nearby.
I'm assuming I need to go ahead and pull the clutch apart to see what parts are salvageable? I will post pics.

My concern now is that if I can't fully isolate the issue, how do I keep it from recurring? I've seen posts where guys have replaced their clutch pack only to have it "wear out"within a yr.

Batman-
I've kind of thought all along that I jammed something up when I went down.my shifter hit the cement curb of a highway median, the full weight of the bike came down on the shifter, broke my left foot peg off-and then immediately after i feel the difference when depressing the clutch.
Could this explain why the clutch release arm was still falling within specs when I checked it against the index marks?
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Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum
Reply #38 - 08/02/16 at 09:38:36
 
JJ,yes ,if the rod was jammed in that position it would make the arm look higher.but I'm just guessing ,there must be a member somewhere in your area ! STEP UP GUYS!!!! ....If not maybe you could find a guy who works at a dealer ,who might do some work on the side.(don't ask him in front of his boss! take him to lunch?)
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum
Reply #39 - 08/02/16 at 09:40:00
 
Since you FELT a difference in the clutch after the drop and the clutch eventually died, I think you found the culprit.
I would not trust the springs unless you can find a compressor with a gauge to test them. Everything that puts pressure on the plates that got hot would be suspect, IMO.
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Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum
Reply #40 - 08/02/16 at 09:53:16
 
JJ, JOG"S  right ,that is why I talked about the wave washer(it's in with the pac ,and is also a "spring" of sorts.) RON AYERS web sight has exploded views of our bikes if you need to see what we're talking about, he also a go to guy for parts.
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Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum
Reply #41 - 08/02/16 at 09:58:34
 
It's pretty clear your fiber plates are toast and the steel plates may be glazed as well.  

The reason it doesn't move at all is that when you fired the clutch (when it was still moving) everything was hot (and got really hot!) so the materials were expanded.  This accelerates the destruction even faster.  Then everything cooled down when the bike is shut down and sits for some time.  Now the plate material returns to it's normal size, except there is less material because it wore off and is in your oil.  So the plates are now thinner than they were before.  So thin in fact that they hardly touch.  And they are glazed over from the heat so they can't grab.

This happened to me a couple of times when I used to race 125cc motocross bikes in sand.  Once things start slipping, it all goes south quickly.  You finish the moto not even realizing the clutch was slipping and it won't move by time the second moto starts a couple of hours later.

The good news is, that you already have it apart.  Just take the springs off and pop the plates out.  I would do a set of friction plates for sure.  if the metal plates are steel, you should be able to de-glaze them, but since things got as hot as they did, you might want to spend the extra cash to replace them also.  If they are aluminum, they are surly garbage.  Springs wouldn't be a bad idea either.  That clutch kit you found would be perfect.
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Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum
Reply #42 - 08/02/16 at 10:04:05
 
JJ, the clutch in our bikes don't wear out! that said, they do wear,as the pac wears it becomes thiner, and so the throw out rod must at some point be shorter otherwise it will not allow the plates to fully compress,they start slipping as yours did .Suzuki sells three different length rods for this very reason.you shouldn't worry about replacement of your pac even with used ,it will last for a long ,long long, long time!
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum
Reply #43 - 08/02/16 at 10:14:10
 
they are surly garbage...

I get surly under certain conditions, too.


If you have dial calipers you can check the dis k s

A FLAT area to lay them on and inspect them.

But, the cost of being wrong versus the cost of new might be enough to make you go with new.
Or, known good used,
The amount of crap you've pumped through the oil would be enough to make me change it Again. I would dump the oil and run a magnet through it. Maybe even pour it through a filter, like a pair of hose stretched over a wide mouth jar.
Drain oil into a Clean catch pan.
A large glass jar to dump some into, inspect it in sunlight.

Put the plug in, add some diesel fuel, slosh vigorously, drain.
Inspect,
I'd flush till it came out looking safe. Color is not important, particulates are. The filter is there, of course, but the pump may not be happy with crud in the oil.

Do you have a compressor?

Since the sidecover is off, you can inspect the crankcase for lumps of clutch material, and get an idea of how desperate it needs cleaned up. A paper towel is good for gathering stuff to look at in direct sunlight.
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Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum
Reply #44 - 08/02/16 at 13:16:58
 
JJ After a few more cups of coffee ......the cobwebs have cleared! I think I gave you a bum steer on the rod, I don't think it can be bent or damaged as it is made out of extremely hard steel much harder than the case or the release arm.but because of the misalignment,bad oil and heat I would be checking the bearing and sleeve that the rod rides in the face of the clutch, I'd clean the bearing, oil it ,and make sure it turns smoothly,and doesn't have excessive play.
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