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Broken bolt in the head (Read 863 times)
cheapnewb24
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Re: Broken bolt in the head
Reply #90 - 08/13/16 at 17:07:05
 
Just didn't feel like talking about it. Lazy, you know. Wink Kinda busy, too, working on the bike and such.

Here goes:

I recently found that a neighbor of mine has gone into a sort of home business as a mechanic and fabricator. He prefers to get his machine work done by a certain local fellow. We weren't completely unaware of him. Dad's known of him for awhile. He's been about the only one willing to let me help him with his work, and I appreciate that. I've only worked with him one day, though. Anyway, he talked like he could get me a good deal with this dude via referral since he has such a relationship with him. Well, maybe.... Undecided

I dropped off the engine and left it overnight with him. The machinist came the next day while I was there and gave me a quote of $100. Amongst comments of how messed up it was, he mentioned that it had been drilled into the aluminum (Dad gets the blame. I think I remember exactly when he did it, and no, I didn't ask him to do it, if I correctly recall. I think I jumped onto him for messing with it.) The machinist could see it, but I didn't have the eye for it. He said that the metric helicoil set would cost $30 and after asking he assured me that it was included in the price. He was also concerned that his supplier might not have the proper helicoil set in stock. Fortunately after contacting them, they did have it in stock. Strangely, he told my neighbor about this instead of me-- as though he were talking about something else. Confusing.  Huh

I mentioned the other guy's quote of $75, and then asked him how much he charges per hour. Yes, he became annoyed with me. He said that he charged $60 per hour and that it was cheaper than the other fellow and other mechanics. He mentioned how long he had been a machinist (all his life, or 40 years or something). After asking, I think he quoted an hour and said that it would be a "b!tch to get out."  He talked and acted like he was about to give up on me and let me have the other fellow do it. I think I surprised him when I said all of the sudden, "Well, we'll go ahead and let you do it, then," or something like that. He turned around like  Huh. I might have had to say it twice. He then immediately remarked about getting it loaded up in the truck. He was ready to go.

He had to go get some cigarettes on his way to pick up the helicoil set. I had an appointment with the orthodontist, so I went home and brushed my teeth and got ready. He was going to let me watch him do it. He was waiting when I got back, and I followed him home to his little shop. We took maybe thirty minutes getting it on his big JET milling machine, and then found out that we had it positioned wrong so that the machine couldn't reach it at the proper angle. Then he had to help his wife with the lawnmower. Then I had to leave for my appointment. I left a little after 12:30, maybe 12:37-12:38. My appointment was at 1:30. It took me at least 30 minutes to get back there. I'd guess it was well after 2:00, perhaps 2:30 or more. When I got back, he said he had just finished it. If it took him nearly 2.5 hours and he had to spend $30 on parts, then he must have earned his money. Who's to say the other fellow would only have charged $75? Before the deal, he seemed to suggest that that price was due to the other fellow having the proper size thread inserts.

He countersunk the hole a bit and put in 2 helicoil inserts. That's in addition to the metal already gone. When I put in the bolt, it felt springy and I was concerned about the bolt being able to catch enough threads to be strong. He seemed to think it would be okay. He just said not to torque it crazy tight. I asked about just using normal, appropriate torque, and he thought that would be okay.

By the way, this whole time, I got him to do it without removing the head. Didn't want to pay for a head gasket. I helped him pack the engine around, and we plopped it on his big milling machine.... All 170+ lbs of it, and he got it done. Who's to say the other fellow would have been able or willing to do that?
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cheapnewb24
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Re: Broken bolt in the head
Reply #91 - 08/13/16 at 17:13:38
 
One thing that's funny... I found the censoring system. I spelled "b!tch" properly, and it automatically changed it to "pregnant dog" once posted. I wonder what it would do to the other words... Grin

If I go to modify it, though, it will show it as I originally wrote it.
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Re: Broken bolt in the head
Reply #92 - 08/13/16 at 18:40:58
 
As for the tensioner mod, apart from the learning experience of it and the fact that I got it done then and there, I'd have been better off with one of Verslagen's tensioners. I didn't accept that he had the best deal on these, and when he quoted $100 the only day I could have him do it, I was upset.  Sad He explained that this other person (Verslagen) was probably "set up" for making these tensioners. He wondered what I had expected, $50? (He was about right). He would not compromise on price at all, and I was about to walk off on him and ask Versy for one. I had just previously started to call home for advice, and I didn't... but I must have done enough... for I mysteriously heard my Dad's voice. Looking around, there was no one. I then reached in my pocket and started talking to my parents. (Sounds hillarious, right. Grin). They advised me to go ahead and do it, so I did. I was still upset. Having consulted him and having shown him the part the previous evening, I asked him why he didn't give me a quote then , and he said that he didn't know exactly what I wanted. We went ahead and went through with it. I stayed with him the entire time, thinking and going over the exact measurements with him and guiding him step by step.

I watched him use a stick welder to put on the new eyelet (well, not really I'm not stupid.) Grin. He ground on it and milled it some and ground some more to thin the metal down and smooth it into shape. He drilled the hole. I explained that I wanted the lower hole functional as well, so he agreed to redrill it (it had been damaged by the welding.)

The most difficult, complicated thing was probably the slot and pin--figuring out the proper measurements. Indeed, it was hard metal as I saw smoke rise and may have heard the squeal. He had lubed it too. He milled the slot a certain distance, maybe 3/4" or 7/8." It needed a few millimeters more, so he extended the slot an additional 1/8". He milled the slot around .005" on each side, and then he kept milling a few swipes on one side. I asked him why, and he pretty much explained that it was off-center or something. (Now that I'm at home, I can actually see it. It still engages the pawl ever so slightly cockeyed.) The slot still allows the plunger to bottom out well before it reaches the end of the slot. The slot could actually have afforded being one millimeter forward, as the maximum travel is now a conservative 18 mm. It's okay, though.

One time, when he was preparing to drill the plunger, and I jammed my foot halfway down my throat. He was still moving the machine head around. I blurted out a doubt about having it centered. He replied something like "Good God, No! Shocked" He asked if I thought he would do that or why, I forget exactly which. I simply replied that "I talk too much." He said, "I can understand your concern..." or "I can understand your concern, but..."  Something like that. He was just astounded.

Maybe I have trust issues? Huh Seem familiar? Perhaps, I'm not used to someone so careful and disciplined. I tend to call 'em as I see 'em. It can backfire sometimes.

As I said before, as indecisive as I am, I wasn't sure I was happy with how far the roll pin was driven in. (He had cut it with a bit of excess-- about 1/4" long.) He had only one size roll pin suitable to fit it (1/8"). He gave it a just a little extra pounding, maybe one little whack, and then it started rubbing the spring, it seemed.  Sad He believed it would be okay. And you know the rest.

In all, it took at least two hours or more, not including the talk before the job. He's a peculiar fellow in personality. He fits the machinist idea well. There's no "close." It has to be right. He says he has never compromised on price. Having been a machinist since the 70's, he was most comfortable with English units. Nearly everything was fractions of inches in his mind. It seemed that all his parts and tooling were in inches, hence his lack of metric helicoils. He had metric wrenches and such, though. I would actually bring him the engine, and he helped me pull the cover and remove the tensioner during the consultation. We then put it back, and then we did much the same (I forget whether I did most of the removing the second time. Undecided) the next day for the mod. Anyway, I had offered to help out or sweep floors or something before he drilled the head, and he replied that he had a wife to do that for him. Perhaps he was more of a loner sort. Huh My neighbor explained that he had dealt with helpers in the past and was done with that idea.

With his saying that he would never compromise on price, I mentioned the idea of competing and such. I think he explained in so many words that he had a monopoly in the local neighborhood for machinework.

For the hours of work he put in, I guess he got his money fair and square, and my neighbor said that he trusted him more than all the other machinists he had dealt with before combined.
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Re: Broken bolt in the head
Reply #93 - 08/14/16 at 02:13:14
 
It occurred to me to ask, do you get customers at your work negotiating the price before agreeing to purchase a pizza? I find your constant talk of negotiating the price with the machinist and playing him off against another somewhat tasteless (not to mention cutting Versy's lunch. Boo). If you were a regular customer of his, it would be fair but for  one off job, well you're lucky he didn't take my approach.
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Kenny G
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Re: Broken bolt in the head
Reply #94 - 08/14/16 at 06:04:10
 
I will bet The Kid's parents are still waiting on the phone call.
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Re: Broken bolt in the head
Reply #95 - 08/14/16 at 06:58:43
 
Sometimes having a 'helper' can do more harm than good, and I can see that being even truer for a machinist, because the work has to be meticulous
if the guy is charging $60 and hour, you got your money's worth, especially with him having a monopoly
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