SuzukiSavage.com - Broken bolt in the head

cheapnewb24

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Broken bolt in the head
07/10/16 at 19:18:04

Well... I finally got around to trying again to remove that stuck allen bolt from the exhaust manifold. That thing is so stuck that acetone/ATF didn't work. I tried the fire and ice trick a little but ended up with a burned finger and frustration. Angry

Dad and I worked on it, and I finally broke the bolt. Yep, I broke an M8 allen bolt off in the head. I drilled it some. I'm worried about getting the hole crooked and breaching into the head. The goal is to get the remains out with the threads undamaged. I didn't have a ez-out small enough, so I'll have to get one in the morning. I'm still not sure that will remove it. It's stuck so solid.

Somebody ought to find the dumb fool that stuck a corrosive black allen bolt in an exhaust manifold and make him eat crow... raw! Angry

He could have at least put some anti-seize in there... or even used it as a temporary fix while he found a more suitable bolt. But no! He had to leave it in there to weld itself stuck!

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MMRanch

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Re: Broken bolt in the head
Reply #1 - 07/10/16 at 19:38:14

Well ! :

you might have to pull the motor out of the frame and jig it under a drill press ... Roll Eyes

One thing for sure is you'll be buying the right size easy-out and getting one that has a life-time-guarantee because you know your going to break it at least once ! Wink

Could be ... and most likely is somebody used "THREAD LOCK" when they put the bolt in. I put a stud in mine that stays in the head at all times .

If I were in your situation :
1. Get the hole drilled for easy out (put a bolt in the good hole use the same angle)
2. Tork-up the easy-out bit
3. put a torch on the surrounding area to soften the thread-lock.

or

just drill it out to the tap dia. for a new stud (8mm or 5/16") , cut new threads then thread-lock it in and leave it there !

good luck

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Kris01 Serious Thumper Offline Eat, sleep, RIDE! Posts: 3767 Tennessee Gender:	Re: Broken bolt in the head Reply #2 - 07/10/16 at 20:04:06 The ham handed mechanic probably didn't know any better.
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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Online Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28787 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Broken bolt in the head Reply #3 - 07/10/16 at 20:04:59 I've never had any luck with these. Being that heads are expensive and hard to find, I suggest taking it to a professional.
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MMRanch Serious Thumper Offline Evil flourishes if Good Men do Nothing. Posts: 5740 LYNCHBURG TN Gender:	Re: Broken bolt in the head Reply #4 - 07/10/16 at 20:47:00 Good idea Versey : You can get the head off without removing the motor from the frame --- put a new cam chain while your there !
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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Broken bolt in the head Reply #5 - 07/10/16 at 21:13:31 verslagen1 wrote on 07/10/16 at 20:04:59: I've never had any luck with these. Being that heads are expensive and hard to find, I suggest taking it to a professional. I would call around to machine shops. I found a guy who cut walk in folks a Lot better deal than the shop rate.
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cheapnewb24 Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 1373 Virginia Gender:	Re: Broken bolt in the head Reply #6 - 07/10/16 at 21:28:41 MMRanch wrote on 07/10/16 at 20:47:00: Good idea Versey : You can get the head off without removing the motor from the frame --- put a new cam chain while your there ! Well, then I want one of those nitrided chains. I may still try to get it myself. I'll keep the idea in mind.
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Ruttly

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Re: Broken bolt in the head
Reply #7 - 07/10/16 at 22:21:30

Newbee,when you drill your broken bolt for the easy out, make sure you drill all the way thru the bolt but not into the head,then spray some pb blaster or liquid wrench thu the hole you drilled let it sit awhile, then heat the area around bolt trying to keep torch off the bolt,then try the easy out , careful they break easy,if it doesn't move,remove easy out,spray & heat again. You can do it take your time !

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Broken bolt in the head Reply #8 - 07/10/16 at 22:31:37 Without the engine or head secured and a drill press to line up, that is not likely to survive. A handheld drill isn't gonna get it.
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Dave

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Re: Broken bolt in the head
Reply #9 - 07/11/16 at 04:44:32

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 07/10/16 at 22:31:37:

Without the engine or head secured and a drill press to line up, that is not likely to survive. A handheld drill isn't gonna get it.

JOG is correct.....you won't be able to drill the bolt out with a handheld drill, or get it out with an easy out. If the darn thing was so tight (stuck) that it broke the bolt head off.....you really have little chance of getting it out with any kind of extractor/easy out.

You also cannot remove the head with the engine in the frame, as the cylinder studs are too long to allow the head to clear the bolts.....the head will hit the top frame rail before it clears the studs.

You really are in a bad situation. It is nearly impossible to drill out a hard metal stud in soft aluminum....and keep the drill centered. The existing stud has most likely already galled the threads before it became stuck.....or at a minimum it is badly corroded into the aluminum threads.

I really don't see any way for you to fix this....other than to take the head off and send it to a professional (machine shop or very good mechanic).

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justin_o_guy2

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Re: Broken bolt in the head
Reply #10 - 07/11/16 at 05:18:22

I have a good drill press , a shop, metal, welder, grinders, dial calipers, all kindsa stuff, and I would Still call machine shops and ask what they would want.. probably just haul the head to them and let them look...I'd have an idea what they would charge before I even started building a jig. And without the stuff I have I would not even think about trying to fix it.
If you can get a head and cover for less than the repair costs, or even if you spend a bit more, and avoid the repaired head, might be, errm, ahead.

Nobody can freehand a drill bit down the center of a bolt, even If they can grind the end flat and square.

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LANCER

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Re: Broken bolt in the head
Reply #11 - 07/11/16 at 07:44:17

I had one a while back, with the stock type bolt broken off in the head.
I tried everything I had that had worked in the past and nothing would do the trick.
After many days of frustration I took it to a machine shop in Tulsa, recommended by a racing engine builder for bikes, and it took him almost 3 hours to get the sucker out. He broke one of his hardest drill bits on it, then used a rod that seemed like something for plasma cutting. That finally worked AFTER he broke one of those rods too. He only charged me $65, up just a little from the original quoted fee of $45. His broken tools amounted to well over $100.
SO ... take it to a professional.

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engineer

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Re: Broken bolt in the head
Reply #12 - 07/11/16 at 11:38:20

The best way to do it is with an EDM, electric discharge machine or a variant called a MDM. Machine shops and especially die shops are always breaking off really hard tools such as taps and drills.

The discharge machines literally eat up the broken off bolt or tool by vaporizing it. Some shops need the EDM for some of their machining but many keep them just so they can save their work when they break something off. Many will do it for walk in customers for a fee, it doesn't take them long to do it.

I knew a guy who was really skillful at drilling out broken grade 8 bolts, he never failed. When he was done drilling he could pick out the remaining material with a diamond shaped chisel and a pick. He worked on a crew that repaired heavy industrial equipment and had a lot of practice. But not everyone can do that, you must keep the drill straight and centered at the same time.

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Ed L. Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline "We All go a Little Crazy Sometimes" Norman Bates Posts: 2808 Sunny Florida Gender:	Re: Broken bolt in the head Reply #13 - 07/11/16 at 13:28:16 Could you weld a nut on the busted end of the bolt? A Mig or Tig welder could get a good weld on the bolt going through the center of the nut. The heat of welding the nut on might help break loose the busted bolt's threads in the head also. I've seen it done and it works most of the time.
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gizzo

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Re: Broken bolt in the head
Reply #14 - 07/11/16 at 17:27:02

cheapnewb24 wrote on 07/10/16 at 19:18:04:

Somebody ought to find the dumb fool that stuck a corrosive black allen bolt in an exhaust manifold and make him eat crow... raw! Angry

I'd find the arseclown who knew the bolt was stuck and chose to snap it off anyway and give him a good kicking as well. He sure made your life harder Tongue

.

I wonder if he tried intense localised heat from an oxy or propane torch on the alloy surrounding the bolt. That works remarkably well. Ditto the nut welded to the end of the stud per: Ed L. You need someone who can mig weld, and don't try it with the hobby gasless mig, unless you're quite good.

When it comes out, try to fit a stud in there instead. Then you just have a nut to remove next time.

Cheapy, this could be right up your alley. Why take it to a professional if you can make something just as good from crap lying around the house? Grin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlwprOKAENo

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