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Re-jetting after Harley Muffler install (Read 504 times)
justin_o_guy2
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Re: Re-jetting after Harley Muffler install
Reply #30 - 07/08/16 at 13:33:15
 
Called the local Harley shops but they say they do not sell the old muffler take-offs.

Well,, stupid happens..
Slip in, walk around, talk to the janitor..

Call Other shops,, trust me, there Is a shop that works on Harley s. Besides the dealer. Or you don't have more than ten stop lights.

We don't sell the take offs,, HA!  Bet your butt they wind up in the scrap yard.. Call the recycling center, see if they have a clue,, naah, better to Go than call..
Check the Marketplace on this f o rum.
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Re: Re-jetting after Harley Muffler install
Reply #31 - 07/08/16 at 13:40:47
 
1st don't tell them you're gonna use it on a metric bike.
tell'm your dad is stuck somewhere and you need to take him a replacement.
somewhere=anywhere there's not a HD dealership for a 100 miles.
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hawk41
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Re: Re-jetting after Harley Muffler install
Reply #32 - 07/08/16 at 13:44:29
 
The first shop I called wanted to know the year of the bike! I guessed a 2000 model but knowing which year the rail attachment model was standard would probably make my story better!   Undecided
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hawk41
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Re: Re-jetting after Harley Muffler install
Reply #33 - 07/08/16 at 14:07:48
 
Since I will be 75 in a couple of months, the "dad stuck somewhere" story probably won't fly! LOL
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Re-jetting after Harley Muffler install
Reply #34 - 07/08/16 at 14:13:41
 
Yeah, you might hafta hire someone,, or maybe get a grandchild to do it.. Dude you seriously need to be riding.. can't Believe those jerks won't sell you one..
I would pretend like I never called, walk in, it's your sons birthday coming up, he Needs a Dyns sent to Ohio,  whatever,,
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hawk41
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Re: Re-jetting after Harley Muffler install
Reply #35 - 07/08/16 at 14:15:18
 
I like that "story" better! Thanks!   Smiley
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Re: Re-jetting after Harley Muffler install
Reply #36 - 07/08/16 at 20:42:03
 
hawk41 wrote on 07/08/16 at 14:07:48:
Since I will be 75 in a couple of months, the "dad stuck somewhere" story probably won't fly! LOL

hell, why won't that work, tell 'em he's 98 and they'll probably give them to you.   Cool
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Re: Re-jetting after Harley Muffler install
Reply #37 - 07/08/16 at 21:05:18
 
Dyna  muffs are a 'dime-a-dozen' on Ebay. Choose the right one and stock up! Cool
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Re: Re-jetting after Harley Muffler install
Reply #38 - 07/08/16 at 22:01:25
 
hawk41 wrote on 07/06/16 at 23:11:10:
Nothing about carbs makes sense to me (sh*t, life doesn't make sense to me but what else is new)! So! Are you saying that the shim needs to be "less" in size than the original. "Shims" are supposed to be make something bigger,right? I think it's time for another Gin & tonic!   Grin



The idea is to lift the slide needle in order to let in more gas through the main/needle jet complex. With the Savage, this is traditionally done by reducing the size/number of shims. Now that I'm working on my Dad's Honda Shadow, I'm actually in the process of adding shims to achieve the same effect. Is your head exploding yet? Grin

I believe the difference is specifically where on the needle you add the shims.

If the carb has never been worked on, you'll do well with the needle shim (white spacer) mod as well as the main and idle jet adjustment. Let no one fool you, the white spacer mod will make a huge difference . Changing the main jet alone won't fix everything, nor will messing with the idle mixture. You need to do all three. I have 3 washers, with a 150 main, and the idle mixture adjusted to whatever. I have stock setup. I may be running a slightly rich, but it does okay. It runs smoothly but pops a bit on decel.  I live around 1500 feet alt. My setup is considered a good starting point for the dyna muffler. I'd say Serowbot would agree. You'll probably lose a bit of gas mileage. You may have to play with it till you get it where you want it.

Another question: Can you turn the idle mixture out until  the engine slows down? Go for the mid-point--the sweet spot between being rich enough to slow the engine or lean enough to slow it. Turn the screw back and forth like a slow pendulum until it slows down in each direction until you find the happy middle. The number of turns is partly academic. It helps us understand. What matters is that it is at the point where it runs right, regardless of whether you've counted turns or not. One important thing, though is that you stay within a certain range of turns. On the Savage, going more than three turns out becomes less productive and risks losing the screw. You don't want to have to jam the screw either in the other direction in order to find the best place. Find the sweet spot. If it crosses the three turn mark, you might as well just get a little bigger jet, at least if you can spare a few dollars.

Let's say that you turn the mixture screws every-which-way and it still doesn't run right... You might have the wrong size pilot. Or... you might have other problems... But, of course, that may not apply to you. Wink
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hawk41
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Re: Re-jetting after Harley Muffler install
Reply #39 - 07/08/16 at 22:17:29
 
I guess what is confusing to me is that to my pea size brain, a backfire is caused by unburned fuel igniting in the exhaust pipe so if you jet the carb to run richer (that's more fuel, right) then you just make matters worse. However, I obviously have my head up my tushy, as all the instructions are to raise the needle and probably put in a larger pilot jet to make it run richer. Oh Well! It really is not all that important that I understand why it works, I will just do it when I get a better muffler. But right now, it's time for another Gin & tonic. Cheers!   Cool
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Re: Re-jetting after Harley Muffler install
Reply #40 - 07/08/16 at 22:24:53
 
cheapnewb24 wrote on 07/08/16 at 22:01:25:
hawk41 wrote on 07/06/16 at 23:11:10:
Nothing about carbs makes sense to me (sh*t, life doesn't make sense to me but what else is new)! So! Are you saying that the shim needs to be "less" in size than the original. "Shims" are supposed to be make something bigger,right? I think it's time for another Gin & tonic!   Grin



The idea is to lift the slide needle in order to let in more gas through the main/needle jet complex. With the Savage, this is traditionally done by reducing the size/number of shims. Now that I'm working on my Dad's Honda Shadow, I'm actually in the process of adding shims to achieve the same effect. Is your head exploding yet? Grin

I believe the difference is specifically where on the needle you add the shims.

If the carb has never been worked on, you'll do well with the needle shim (white spacer) mod as well as the main and idle jet adjustment. Let no one fool you, the white spacer mod will make a huge difference . Changing the main jet alone won't fix everything, nor will messing with the idle mixture. You need to do all three. I have 3 washers, with a 150 main, and the idle mixture adjusted to whatever. I have stock setup. I may be running a slightly rich, but it does okay. It runs smoothly but pops a bit on decel.  I live around 1500 feet alt. My setup is considered a good starting point for the dyna muffler. I'd say Serowbot would agree. You'll probably lose a bit of gas mileage. You may have to play with it till you get it where you want it.

Another question: Can you turn the idle mixture out until  the engine slows down? Go for the mid-point--the sweet spot between being rich enough to slow the engine or lean enough to slow it. Turn the screw back and forth like a slow pendulum until it slows down in each direction until you find the happy middle. The number of turns is partly academic. It helps us understand. What matters is that it is at the point where it runs right, regardless of whether you've counted turns or not. One important thing, though is that you stay within a certain range of turns. On the Savage, going more than three turns out becomes less productive and risks losing the screw. You don't want to have to jam the screw either in the other direction in order to find the best place. Find the sweet spot. If it crosses the three turn mark, you might as well just get a little bigger jet, at least if you can spare a few dollars.

Let's say that you turn the mixture screws every-which-way and it still doesn't run right... You might have the wrong size pilot. Or... you might have other problems... But, of course, that may not apply to you. Wink
 I'm thinking of my Dad's Honda Shadow... That's another story. And, yes I'm rejetting it and shimming it.
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Re: Re-jetting after Harley Muffler install
Reply #41 - 07/09/16 at 04:30:11
 
hawk41 wrote on 07/08/16 at 22:17:29:
I guess what is confusing to me is that to my pea size brain, a backfire is caused by unburned fuel igniting in the exhaust pipe so if you jet the carb to run richer (that's more fuel, right) then you just make matters worse.   Cool


The reason the unburned fuel makes it into the exhaust.....is that the mixture has become so lean that it cannot be ignited in the cylinder by the spark plug - but it can be ignited by the hot exhaust pipe.  It also happens that a lean mixture with a lot of oxygen explodes more violently in the exhaust system than a mixture with less available oxygen - so the explosion is less violent when the mixture is richer.

The lean situation occurs when you have the engine at speeds above idle, and you allow the throttle to close completely when you shift, or when slowing down.  The closed throttle creates a very high engine vacuum that pulls a lot of air into the engine - but the closed throttle makes the carb close all the fuel circuits except for the idle circuit....and it just can't provide enough fuel when the engine is slowing down with the throttle closed.

WARNING - You need to jet your bike so that it runs properly when you are acceleratinng and running at a steady speed - you should not be jetting your bike so it doesn't backfire or pop.  Jetting changes for the closed throttle position don't make a good running and economical engine.  You need to adapt your right wrist to avoid closing the throttle completely as you shift gears - and when you are slowing down.  If you keep the throttle open just a tiny bit - the noise will be reduced considerably.  When slowing down you just roll the throttle slightly open and you will hear the popping and backfiring go away - but don't use so much throttle that the bike is accelerating.  

The backfire (afterfire) on shutdown occurs because you have turned off the ignition and the engine is still turning as it comes to a stop....and it is still pulling air through the carb, picking up fuel, and then pumping it into the hot exhaust as the engine comes to a stop.  When that unburned fair/fuel build up in the hot exhaust system it becomes hot, reaches the flash point, and explodes.  The stock muffler does a good job of baffling the explosion - but when you install a less restrictive muffler the explosion is less contained.  The air/fuel mixture once again can affect the loudness of the explosion, and a lean mixture explodes more violently.  The fuel/air mixture at idle is controlled by the idle mixture screw - and once again you need to adjust the screw so the engine runs correctly, and not so that it doesn't backfire.  Allowing a few seconds of idle before you shut the engine down can help to reduce the chance of a backfire at shutdown.
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Re: Re-jetting after Harley Muffler install
Reply #42 - 07/09/16 at 05:51:00
 
Thanks for the explanation. Now I understand how it works. Before I change out my Screaming Eagle non-muffler I will see if I can get it to run more smoothly and practice rolling the throttle differently. No luck so far finding a take off Dyna anyway.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Re-jetting after Harley Muffler install
Reply #43 - 07/09/16 at 06:10:37
 
Rowboat,, he's over your way,,can you locate anything for him?
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Re: Re-jetting after Harley Muffler install
Reply #44 - 07/09/16 at 08:57:51
 
Screaming Eagle is history! Too much trouble! It's heading for Craigs List. Re-installed my slightly modified stock muffler and at 2.5 turns it appears to run fairly well. At least it's rideable until I find a Dyna. Question? How many times can you remove the header pipe and re-install it before you replace the exhaust gasket.   Undecided
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