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Chain conversion (Read 487 times)
justin_o_guy2
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Re: Chain conversion
Reply #15 - 07/07/16 at 16:08:02
 
I wonder how consistent the strength and integrity of sintered metal parts are. And what can you imagine that You, I'm talking about You, because you're pretty up to speed on the clutch stuff, aren't you? So is there anything that you question having right?
The rod is pretty much everything that could be outta kilter, init?
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Ruttly
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Re: Chain conversion
Reply #16 - 07/08/16 at 12:36:47
 
Newbee rycas chain conversion is a 19 counter and a 52 rear they say it closely matches the stock ratio. Those are the only ones I know of unless you have them made $$$ or find some used
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Re: Chain conversion
Reply #17 - 07/08/16 at 12:52:39
 
I don't think you can fit anything over a 17 tooth counter on our bikes,13 to 17 I believe are what you can use.stock ratio 2.956,17/50 gearing 2.941
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Re: Chain conversion
Reply #18 - 07/08/16 at 15:18:44
 
My mistake they sell a 17 & a 18 or buy the complete kit , I used the 18 & had a 54 custom cut but I think I'm going back to a 17
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Re: Chain conversion
Reply #19 - 07/08/16 at 20:02:16
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 07/07/16 at 12:52:40:
I wheelied mine without jerking the bars, ONCE..
What oil are you using?
Additives?
What do you weigh?
I don't know anyone who has said it is a weak clutch.
I did break the throwout.
Someone here is running the Barnett and has not broken anything, so, it's hard to say if the shims caused anything.
It's been known to break with stock, no mods, clutch.
It's just sintered Metal.. not cast, not billet, heated, crushed powder..

Sintering is the process of compacting and forming a solid mass of material by heat and/or pressure without melting it to the point of liquefaction. Sintering happens naturally in mineral deposits or as a manufacturing process used with metals, ceramics, plastics, and other materials.



I use Rotella dino with zddp added, but it's got around 2k on it, and I've added a bit. Last I checked, I weigh at least 205 in the morning-- no breakfast, no gear. Maybe I'm just too fat.  Cheesy

(I am 6'1", by the way)
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Re: Chain conversion
Reply #20 - 07/08/16 at 20:35:28
 
At least 205
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Re: Chain conversion
Reply #21 - 07/08/16 at 20:43:02
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 07/07/16 at 16:08:02:
I wonder how consistent the strength and integrity of sintered metal parts are. And what can you imagine that You, I'm talking about You, because you're pretty up to speed on the clutch stuff, aren't you? So is there anything that you question having right?
The rod is pretty much everything that could be outta kilter, init?


Huh

Your thoughts seem a little jumbled. Are you trying to say, "What could you (meaning I) possibly think is wrong with your clutch because I assume you are well aware of the problems that could be encountered with the Savage clutch?"  ???

Alright... Well... There are a few things to talk about here from what you've said and what I know and have read...

1. I assume (I could be wrong) the sintered piece that breaks is the shaft with the little cam lobe on it that presses the throwout rod.  Huh Too much pressure and torque from heavy springs, combined with manufacturing defects causes them to break. Or is it the rod itself?

2. The rod itself comes in three different lengths to accommodate for clutch wear. As the clutch pack wears. the back plate that the rod presses against draws in towards the rod, necessitating a shorter rod... Or do I have it backwards? I know there was a big thread about this whole rod size confusion. Anyway, and inappropriate length of rod will cause the clutch to be out of its prime region of travel due to leverage changes on the outside and/or cam lobe contour on the inside of the case (probably the latter). Therefore, it won't be able to effectively move the plates their maximum distance. When this occurs, The clutch cannot be adjusted satisfactorily by conventional means. No matter which way you go, it will either slip too much or drag too much. The target travel is signified by two marks on the engine case. My lever is still barely within this target. I doubt I have a problem in this area because I can still get satisfactory disengagement along with plenty of free-play. Therefore, I would assume the the throwout mechanism is not substantially getting in the way.

3. I broke my clutch adjuster.  Sad This makes me want to put a lot of slop in the clutch in order to make sure the broken pieces are not holding the cable in substantial tension. I am not sure I had made that adjustment before my test. It still disengages good enough, but I'd like to get that fixed. I doubt this is the problem.

4. My oil needs to be changed within 1K miles. This could be causing grip problems. It's just Rotella 15w-40 with zddp additive. I cannot tell what any of the PO's did, though.  Huh

5. The engine may not have reached full operating temperature. The oil wasn't cold, but, maybe it wasn't hot enough. The reason for this is something my Dad mentioned or reminded me of a few days ago. Being a wet clutch, it may take a while to squeeze out the oil film and hook. (Reminds me of he Hele-Shaw clutch, which worked solely on the principle of an oil film-- theoretically-- without friction material.)  Stronger springs should help in this regard, pressing out the oil film, but perhaps the material matters too. Maybe that Kevlar stuff can absorb and shear away the film instead of gliding on it like glass. However, the stickiness made me wonder whether it will slip awhile and then grab violently. Don't want that.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Chain conversion
Reply #22 - 07/08/16 at 23:20:52
 
Actually,I was addressing Versy.
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Re: Chain conversion
Reply #23 - 07/09/16 at 09:26:42
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 07/07/16 at 16:08:02:
I wonder how consistent the strength and integrity of sintered metal parts are. And what can you imagine that You, I'm talking about You, because you're pretty up to speed on the clutch stuff, aren't you? So is there anything that you question having right?
The rod is pretty much everything that could be outta kilter, init?

A lot of times when I take a stock rod out, it has a burr around the shoulder.
I usually grind both ends of the rod till they're spherical in shape.
This shape matches the throwout lever.
But it does shorten the rod so don't do it unless you need a shorter one or have longer ones available.
Next I aim at getting the throwout rod between 12 and 12.5mm out of the clutch pack.
This optimizes geometry for clutch operation.
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Re: Chain conversion
Reply #24 - 07/10/16 at 10:30:57
 
YOU want harder launch, with highway gearing ,good luck! Are you installing a  turbo?
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cheapnewb24
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Re: Chain conversion
Reply #25 - 07/10/16 at 20:56:55
 
Maybe I should get my parents to fund an expensive experiment to have a custom-made 5th gear or something. Then I could sell them to everybody.... all for a cheap beginner bike.

Frustrating isn't it?

No one has found a way to transplant a suitable 5th gear to date.


But then, highway gearing on a Savage is comparable to a 650 Triumph, so it's not too crazy. Check out gearing commander for T120r  

At least maybe I can get a clutch to grip well enough to get use from what power I've got.
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Re: Chain conversion
Reply #26 - 07/10/16 at 21:38:35
 
Newbee,RYCA also sells some smaller rear sprockets for savage too more suitable for highway gearing .
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Re: Chain conversion
Reply #27 - 07/10/16 at 23:02:35
 
Ruttly wrote on 07/08/16 at 15:18:44:
My mistake they sell a 17 & a 18 or buy the complete kit , I used the 18 & had a 54 custom cut but I think I'm going back to a 17

Ruttly,If I were you I'd go back to a 17 ,one of your gears should be a prime number to allow more even wear on your sprockets.54 can be divide by18which makes the links land in the same place on your rear sprocket much more often,a 17 front would make the chain change one tooth every revolution ,or not repeat for 100 revolutions on a 100 link chain.
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Re: Chain conversion
Reply #28 - 07/11/16 at 10:17:18
 
Batman what have you been smokin in the bat cave ? That's the goofiest thing I ever heard, do you have any docs to back up that ? That's goin cause some real bad mojo ! Really it's just a chain & sprockets. Are you a math professor in real life ? I got it I'll install a half link just to screw up the prime number thing ! Yeah I know What an ass that guy is !
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Chain conversion
Reply #29 - 07/11/16 at 10:37:40
 
Why Start with sneering at a new idea?

http://www.ducatimonster.org/forums/tech/154060-excellent-chain-sprocket-info...

Look for answers,
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