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tuneing your intake (Read 1660 times)
batman
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tuneing your intake
05/25/16 at 21:03:08
 
I use oldfeller's home made air filter because it's inexpensive,and  it doesn't call for removal of the air box or intake tube to the carb,which is engineered for proper intake length. does anyone think their bike runs better with a 50 dollar air cleaner or is it because they look pretty.
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« Last Edit: 10/07/19 at 20:12:20 by batman »  

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gizzo
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Re: tuneing your intake
Reply #1 - 05/25/16 at 22:46:24
 
+1 for look pretty.

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Re: tuneing your intake
Reply #2 - 05/26/16 at 00:24:10
 
We haven't seen a bike dynoed with the air box, then ditch it and stick a cone on, but I Think the airbox will be better.
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Re: tuneing your intake
Reply #3 - 05/26/16 at 00:53:13
 
A couple of the Enfield guys made a replacement airbox lid for the Continental GT. The old element sat inside the airbox and was only about 1/2" from the injector inlet. The new lid situates the element outside the airbox, in the new lid. So we end up with an empty airbox (apart from a velocity stack). It makes a noticeable difference. No one has dyno'd it to see how much. Another guy put a massive K&N pod on his and reported similar results.
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Re: tuneing your intake
Reply #4 - 05/26/16 at 01:10:52
 
Mine's scary fast with a cone. and 152.5 main Cool
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Re: tuneing your intake
Reply #5 - 05/26/16 at 18:17:20
 
I like the sound of the cone air intake
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Re: tuneing your intake
Reply #6 - 05/26/16 at 19:27:14
 
I brought this up because I read a long while back, intake info that said the total area inside the intake path (from the intake valve seats to the entrance at the air box),should be equal to the piston displacement. A wave is present in the intake and exhaust to enhance removal of exhaust gases and to inject air/fuel ,(intake and exhaust are both open at the same time, valve overlap). If you use a cone filter ,and you have the room ,you might able to reuse the hose that ran between the carb and air box and mount your cone filter on the end and enhance your bikes performance.
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Re: tuneing your intake
Reply #7 - 05/27/16 at 03:21:55
 
Yeah my K&N is much better than that snorkel. lol

If you want performance velocity stack is the way to go, and the more surface area on your filter.. the easier it flows. Common sense I guess  Huh
Some of the craziest tuning Ive seen on included CNC intakes, CNC polished carb inlet, custom billet CNC velocity stack, dial a jet, and massive oversized foam filters. Velocity length influences the power band on thumpers. short for top end power I think  Undecided and longer for bottom end.. someplace in between for a balance is what you want.
Ive always thought 2 layer foam filters are the best for high end performance but I don't really have any proof.. only weak anecdotal evidence.

Some engines also like a "step" inside the intake I don't know why but it works well with some thumpers. Rough intake ports help with fuel atomization so even if you port it out leaving it rough keeps things flowing and prevents drip.

For 2 stroke foam filters are amazing.. especially if they get a little wet with gas.

For the savage I think the airbox is a pile of crap lol. A tuned velocity stack and oversized filter would be much better than that rubber intake boot with a cone filter. I see some dudes on here with those chinchongyoulicklongdingdong china fleabay filters.. dear god those are crap.. you can see right through the filer mesh.. Ive used one on a small engine and it only filters out birds and small babys.. Also you can throw on one of those mesh covers to help prevent water/rain from pulling dirt into the filter. Pretty sweet I think lol

I'm just rambling..  Lips Sealed


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Re: tuneing your intake
Reply #8 - 05/27/16 at 04:10:38
 
what about converting to the cone k&N with keeping the distance of the tube to the airflow box?

such as using a U bend like here

http://www.hps-siliconehoses.com/180-degree-u-bend-aluminum-tubing-pipe.html?...
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Re: tuneing your intake
Reply #9 - 05/27/16 at 05:15:11
 
Well....I kinda' believe that "tuning" an intake scientifically is most likely a bit beyond what most of us are capable of doing.

That doesn't mean that we can't avoid things that hurt performance, and attempt to do the things that help to improve it.

This air filter stuck on the back of the carb - has to limit the performance.  The air flow into the carb is not going to be efficient, as the air flow has to make a sudden 90 degree turn.  At low throttle settings it most likely works just fine....at full throttle most likely is restrictive and disruptive to the air flow.





The small cone filters are also likely not to help much at high rpm.  And as Witchdocter stated above.....don't buy a cheap Chinese knock off...especially the ones with the step in the rubber flange that blocks the vent at the top of the carb inlet.  Several members have installed them and had all kind of trouble - and it turns out the filter is blocking that oval vent and making the carb do really weird things.





If you want a cone filter....buy a good one that is as large and long as you can fit on the bike.  And if you can fit a tube between the carb and filter....that will help to stabilize the air flow as well - the length of the tube is the "tuning" part this thread is about, and you could try different lengths and see how it affects the performance.




I used a large foam filter, and I used as much of the stock intake tube as I could fit.



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Re: tuneing your intake
Reply #10 - 05/27/16 at 06:23:38
 
If memory serves me right the length of the stock intake is 246mm. or about 9 7/8 inches ,I believe the wave moving back through the intake is called revision ,the velocity of wave when it enters the air box is converted into pressure due to expansion,this pressure helps move the air back threw the carb into the cylinder.I think the timing of the wave and the volume of the intake channel to be critical to completely filling the cylinder ,and might be causing a lean condition.(Are your header pipes turning blue?)in motors running shorter filters.  I don't think RPM comes into play here.
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Re: tuneing your intake
Reply #11 - 05/27/16 at 06:39:59
 
batman wrote on 05/27/16 at 06:23:38:
If memory serves me right the length of the stock intake is 246mm. or about 9 7/8 inches ,I believe the wave moving back through the intake is called revision ,the velocity of wave when it enters the air box is converted into pressure due to expansion,this pressure helps move the air back threw the carb into the cylinder.I think the timing of the wave and the volume of the intake channel to be critical to completely filling the cylinder ,and might be causing a lean condition.(Are your header pipes turning blue?)in motors running shorter filters.  I don't think RPM comes into play here.


I don't believe the stock intake is nearly that long....I cut the stock rubber tube just about in half.  As a guess, I believe the stock rubber boot/tube is about 5" long.

I also wonder if any of the length of the foam filter acts as a part of the plenum?

My pipe has never turned.  I jetted by bike with a fuel/air meter installed, and I the fuel/air meter allowed me to adjust the jets more precisely than I could have done by ear/feel.  I am confident my bike runs well, and does not have any bad habits (unlike the rider).


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Re: tuneing your intake
Reply #12 - 05/27/16 at 09:11:50
 
I didn't have the numbers To run them against the stock airbox.
I don't have any experience with tuning, but studied the design and saw a way to increase the volume and did it.
I don't think a box of air is nearly as likely to provide a pressure wave to the carb as the intake opens as a tube would, but, where is That gonna go?
So, without a Dyno comparison to see what a cone filter versus the stock airbox does, I think what I did helped, of course, the rubber inlet was removed, and I probably increased the volume by fifty to 100cc,
But, having a box of air, already sucked through filter, and, at some RPM even that box begins to resonate and develop a pressure wave, it's just not aimed down the throat of the carb.
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Re: tuneing your intake
Reply #13 - 05/27/16 at 13:53:19
 
That number ,9 7/8 is the total length of the intake from the valves to filter box ,which includes the carb.Another measurement that I failed to speak about was that the filter should stand off the end of the tube  40mm,Gizzo said the Enfields ran better when the filter was moved from1/2 inch to outside their new custom air boxes ,leaving a much larger space between the filter and intake tube,you can't do this with a cone , the Enfield guys knew what they were doing.They did a better job than the factory.   JOG,velocity and pressure are inversely  proportional ,that means the wave hits the end of tube the wave spreads out in the box(loss of velocity)and therefore does pressurize the air box.As the exhaust valves close and the piston moves downward ,the  pressure wave helping to send air through the carb.The carb being smaller further increases velocity (causing a pressure drop, or vacuum)which pulls fuel from the jets. We might then look at the piston it's moving down,where is the air under going?Through the huff tube to further pressurize the air box,but not with a cone filter.
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Re: tuneing your intake
Reply #14 - 05/27/16 at 18:38:26
 
I love these.. probably because when it rains here ..IT FRIGGEN RAINS  Shocked you just get caught in a downpour sometimes.

We may not scientifically be able to tune them but we can use our intuition and commonsense/logic. A bit of bro-science never hurt haha.

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