SuzukiSavage.com - tuneing your intake

VortecCPI

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Re: tuneing your intake
Reply #15 - 06/04/16 at 10:20:23

A tuned intake system can have a significant impact on performance. With proper tuning you can have a VE as high as 130%, which translates to 4.4 PSIG at the intake side. That is the equivalent of a 1.25 point increase in CR.

I recently fabricated a tuned intake system for my 1986 Yamaha SRX600 and the difference was nothing short of amazing. The primary runner is smaller/longer and the secondary runner is bigger/shorter. This gives me overlapping areas of tuning that compliment each other. Edelbrock used to make headers using the same concept.

The primary side uses a 1-1/4" NPS PVC elbow and the secondary side uses 1-1/2" NPS PVC pipe and flexible elbow. I did lose some power just before redline at 7,000 RPM but I could care less as I never ride up there.

I was lucky with the old SRX because my father already gutted the airbox and I had plenty of space between the swingarm and seat to construct a new airbox area. Total length of primary is 20.5" and total length of secondary is 18.0". Total length is length from end of intake runner to face of valve.

Downsides? None except the exhaust is a lot louder and now has a very distinct CRACK. I believe this is due to the increased cylinder pressure.

I would love to try this on my wife's LS650 but space on that bike is very tight.

Below are the results of the work I did:

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VortecCPI Full Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 127	Re: tuneing your intake Reply #16 - 06/04/16 at 10:35:24 View of filters from right side cover:
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justin_o_guy2

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Re: tuneing your intake
Reply #17 - 06/04/16 at 10:48:57

Primary runner, secondary, no mental image for me.
Tell me where and I'll go back and look.

With proper tuning you can have a VE as high as 130%, which translates to 4.4 PSIG at the intake side. That is the equivalent of a 1.25 point increase in CR

VE, volumetric efficiency?
I don't understand how the 130% translate s to 4.4PSIG..
Is that Gain in pressure?

Alright I'm thinking I'm beginning to grok some of it.
While I'm pretty sure I'm not gonna be Doing anything like this, I Am still interested in understanding it. Everyone seems to focus on exhaust, and while there are good gains there, at least there's a piston to Shove it out. Intake efficiency just seems like that Getting the Rest of the goody out of an engine.

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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.

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striknein

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Re: tuneing your intake
Reply #18 - 06/04/16 at 15:38:29

VortecCPI wrote on 06/04/16 at 10:20:23:

A tuned intake system can have a significant impact on performance. With proper tuning you can have a VE as high as 130%, which translates to 4.4 PSIG at the intake side. That is the equivalent of a 1.25 point increase in CR.

I recently fabricated a tuned intake system for my 1986 Yamaha SRX600 and the difference was nothing short of amazing. The primary runner is smaller/longer and the secondary runner is bigger/shorter. This gives me overlapping areas of tuning that compliment each other. Edelbrock used to make headers using the same concept.

The primary side uses a 1-1/4" NPS PVC elbow and the secondary side uses 1-1/2" NPS PVC pipe and flexible elbow. I did lose some power just before redline at 7,000 RPM but I could care less as I never ride up there.

I was lucky with the old SRX because my father already gutted the airbox and I had plenty of space between the swingarm and seat to construct a new airbox area. Total length of primary is 20.5" and total length of secondary is 18.0". Total length is length from end of intake runner to face of valve.

Downsides? None except the exhaust is a lot louder and now has a very distinct CRACK. I believe this is due to the increased cylinder pressure.

I would love to try this on my wife's LS650 but space on that bike is very tight.

Below are the results of the work I did:

Where would you start on our bikes?

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Kenny G

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Re: tuneing your intake
Reply #19 - 06/04/16 at 16:54:46

Here is how I would start if I was clever enough to do the job. Curve the manifold so the carb sticks out the side of the bike and then you can add as much pipe to the carb to move the air filter as far from the engine as you want.

I had a 600cc AJS Scrambler in 1959 with tuned intake and exhaust. The carb mounted on a piece of rubber hose about a foot long. I won a lot of races until someone came up with the $100.00 to protest. I took the hundred bucks and pulled the head and some spoil sport knew how to calculate CCs That was the end of racing a 600cc engine in the 500cc class. All was not wasted I did well in the 650cc class.

The 600cc engine was powerful with the factory intake and exhaust, but it flew with the tuned intake and exhaust.

This would be a job for Lancer because that is where we go for carburetor stuff.

Kenny G

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Carb_Extension.jpg

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Ed L.

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Re: tuneing your intake
Reply #20 - 06/04/16 at 17:10:02

I've always wanted to turn the right side cover into an air scoop which pushes air into the stock airbox while riding. It would be pretty simple, just remove or drill out the air box door and hammer the front edge of the cover out into a scoop, a little heat and some light hammer work should do it Cheesy

. Could probably bend and hammer one out of some thick aluminum sheeting. Bet it would really help with a drop in K+N filter.
The biggest advantage of a cone filter is less weight and a cool look Cool

.

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Silver '02, clubman handle bars, Cobra headlight, Sportster muffler, K+N stock air filter, 152.5 main, Superbrace, oil cooler, 1/2 inch aluminium plate forward controls, spark advance, goes like stink

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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28884 L.A. California Gender:	Re: tuneing your intake Reply #21 - 06/04/16 at 17:10:41 How long?
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Kenny G Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com The Singles Club...LOL Posts: 1754 Robson Ranch, Denton, Texas Gender:	Re: tuneing your intake Reply #22 - 06/04/16 at 17:26:47 Verslagen, How long? It will take someone like you or Lancer to answer that question. I wish I could. I would like to see more pictures of the arrangement in your photograph. Kenny G
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batman Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 3806 osceola new york Gender:	Re: tuneing your intake Reply #23 - 06/04/16 at 20:28:39 Like I said when I started this thread, If you dump the stock air box and just toss on a cone filter your passing on performance.Vortec and Kenny G. seem to have a handle on this ,I wonder if they know the math or if it was trial and error? come on I'm all ears!
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Ruttly

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Re: tuneing your intake
Reply #24 - 06/04/16 at 20:50:08

I had a teacher in junior college Dima Elgin of Elgin Cams he taught that you select the proper cam for the application then build the engine to match the cam. Every thing you change you will need to correct something else and so on( the butterfly effect ). So knowledge is key or monkey see monkey do. Here's where I learned and I still refer back to when needed. This book has been in print for over 30 years one of the best books for understanding a four stroke engine , building , tuning. Hope your good at math , I'm not I have a calulator. In the book the Yamaha SR500 is used, not all that different from the Suzuki .
Four Stroke Performance Tuning by A.Graham Bell
In Dima's 12 week course I was in week seven and on the verge of failing,he said go back and read the book and read it again if you have to. Week 12 scored A- in the class, tough course, tough teacher,great education,that was 20 years ago and still have that book !

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Ruttly Serious Thumper Offline Thumpers Rule Posts: 5099 Manteca , CA Gender:	Re: tuneing your intake Reply #25 - 06/04/16 at 20:55:10 Batman you wanted the math, here's all the math needed !
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Ruttly Serious Thumper Offline Thumpers Rule Posts: 5099 Manteca , CA Gender:	Re: tuneing your intake Reply #26 - 06/04/16 at 20:58:56 Versey's set up is as good as it gets. Does it ever suck up your pant legs?
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Kenny G

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Re: tuneing your intake
Reply #27 - 06/04/16 at 21:08:33

Batman,

I am not clever enough to develop a tuned intake or exhaust.

I have had two guys in my life that could make a motorcycle fly.

One was my brother William and the other was Marion Cameron who sold me my AJS Scrambler and tuned it. On the AJS he also heated and bent the exhaust header up in the air right about where the muffler connected. It was about the same angle as a Norton.

I have no clue why his tuning worked, but you could feel the results, and see the results in 1/4 mile times. In those days the only place to test a motorcycle for acceleration was the local drag strip. I can remember hearing the announcer on the PA system saying "Listen to that Thumper go"...... All of the noise was behind me I could hear him like he was inside my helmet.....

Kenny G

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verslagen1

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Re: tuneing your intake
Reply #28 - 06/04/16 at 21:32:46

Ruttly wrote on 06/04/16 at 20:50:08:

I had a teacher in junior college Dima Elgin of Elgin Cams he taught that you select the proper cam for the application then build the engine to match the cam. Every thing you change you will need to correct something else and so on( the butterfly effect ). So knowledge is key or monkey see monkey do. Here's where I learned and I still refer back to when needed. This book has been in print for over 30 years one of the best books for understanding a four stroke engine , building , tuning. Hope your good at math , I'm not I have a calulator. In the book the Yamaha SR500 is used, not all that different from the Suzuki .
Four Stroke Performance Tuning by A.Graham Bell
In Dima's 12 week course I was in week seven and on the verge of failing,he said go back and read the book and read it again if you have to. Week 12 scored A- in the class, tough course, tough teacher,great education,that was 20 years ago and still have that book !

found it for $5 +$4 Cool

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Ruttly Serious Thumper Offline Thumpers Rule Posts: 5099 Manteca , CA Gender:	Re: tuneing your intake Reply #29 - 06/04/16 at 21:54:12 Think I paid about 20 bucks 20 years ago. Good deal.
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