SuzukiSavage.com - Cam chain tensioner revisited

batman Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 3806 osceola new york Gender:	Re: Cam chain tensioner revisited Reply #60 - 05/23/16 at 07:17:54 yes the oil might be the biggest problem
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Re: Cam chain tensioner revisited
Reply #61 - 05/23/16 at 07:21:55

No one has ever had a tensioner break the pawl or the teeth...if they did it has never been reported on this forum that I am aware of.

I suppose that the pawl/teeth could be broken if the adjuster wasn't moved for an extended period, and a lot of slack built up and it allowed the chain to "snap" backwards.

I believe the relatively flimsy offset metal bracket on the guide would fail before the teeth on the pawl would break.

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Armen

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Re: Cam chain tensioner revisited
Reply #62 - 05/23/16 at 07:26:19

The pawl breaking isn't the issue as I see it. I'm removing the pawl so that the chain isn't being held taught as the cylinder expands.
All I'll do is yank the side cover every now and then and check the chain slack. If it is to slack, I'll either make a longer rod to fit inside the tensioner spring, or shim up the dowel.
Once I get to it, I'll take some pics.
Just read the thing on the list about tarting up the forks. Am chasing down a lower tree and gassing up the milling machine and lathe Wink

-Armen

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Re: Cam chain tensioner revisited
Reply #63 - 05/23/16 at 07:30:34

Armen wrote on 05/23/16 at 07:26:19:

The pawl breaking isn't the issue as I see it. I'm removing the pawl so that the chain isn't being held taught as the cylinder expands.
All I'll do is yank the side cover every now and then and check the chain slack. If it is to slack, I'll either make a longer rod to fit inside the tensioner spring, or shim up the dowel.
Once I get to it, I'll take some pics.
Just read the thing on the list about tarting up the forks. Am chasing down a lower tree and gassing up the milling machine and lathe Wink

-Armen

That could be a workable solution...the plug would just prevent the tensioner from allowing too much slack.

When you take your engine apart, just measure the extension of the plunger, and make your dowel so that it allows just a tad less room and the plunger can move back only slightly below what you measured.

I like this idea more than any other I have seen. It does require occasional attention to build a new rod - but how often we really don't know until someone road tests it for 5,000 miles or so!

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batman Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 3806 osceola new york Gender:	Re: Cam chain tensioner revisited Reply #64 - 05/23/16 at 09:43:47 why make a new rod each time?Use a threaded rod hex coupling nut(3/8 16),turn/file it round to a light press fit into the base of the plunger, cut it to the length that suits you add a bolt ,nut, star lock washer and you can adjust anytime to any length your heart desires.(there goes that #$$%%$#@%^& MacGyver again)
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Re: Cam chain tensioner revisited
Reply #65 - 05/23/16 at 09:54:51

batman wrote on 05/23/16 at 09:43:47:

why make a new rod each time?Use a threaded rod hex coupling nut(3/8 16),turn/file it round to a light press fit into the base of the plunger, cut it to the length that suits you add a bolt ,nut, star lock washer and you can adjust anytime to any length your heart desires.

If you did that.....where would you put the spring?

Armen was going to put a rod cut to length in the ID of the spring inside the plunger......at least that is what I understood from his post.

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batman Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 3806 osceola new york Gender:	Re: Cam chain tensioner revisited Reply #66 - 05/23/16 at 09:58:03 Oops I was thinking about your method of just using the paw and what you might do for a little insurance.
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norm92de Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 1180 El Paso TX Gender:	Re: Cam chain tensioner revisited Reply #67 - 05/23/16 at 10:39:19 What would happen if you removed the spring just leaving the pawl? You could push the rear guide up to the chain each time. The rear guide wouldn't go anywhere would it. Then it might be possible to use Versys bent rod to pull the rear guide up a notch each time.
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Re: Cam chain tensioner revisited
Reply #68 - 05/23/16 at 11:00:11

norm92de wrote on 05/23/16 at 10:39:19:

What would happen if you removed the spring just leaving the pawl?
You could push the rear guide up to the chain each time. The rear guide wouldn't go anywhere would it.

Then it might be possible to use Versys bent rod to pull the rear guide up a notch each time.

Personally I like that idea....and it would be really nice if you could figure out a way to just leave something in place to pull....a permanent bent lever (or cable) of some sort.

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norm92de Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 1180 El Paso TX Gender:	Re: Cam chain tensioner revisited Reply #69 - 05/23/16 at 11:19:17 Does the spring tension have a function or will the rear guide do its job without the spring? A new design attachment bolt with something to hook on to might work. Or something attached to the plunger? versy's mod will give us a hole to work with, either before or after.
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Re: Cam chain tensioner revisited
Reply #70 - 05/23/16 at 11:39:28

norm92de wrote on 05/23/16 at 11:19:17:

Does the spring tension have a function or will the rear guide do its job without the spring?

That is an interesting question.

In the stock application the spring pushes out the plunger to a proper "preload"....once the engine is running the pawl controls what is going on - but that same pawl has no ability to relieve tension as the engine warms up and expands.

If you eliminate the pawl and insert your spacer...likely the spring would have little or no function. I don't know what would be a proper amount of spring tension to apply when the pawl is gone. The harder you push on the guide....the faster the guide and chain will wear.

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Re: Cam chain tensioner revisited
Reply #71 - 05/23/16 at 11:43:36

Go back to the earlier description. The idea is to set up the tensioner with enough slack to allow for the cylinder expansion. Leave the spring in there to take up the slack until the cylinder heats up. No pawl.
This is kinda turing into teenage sex-months of talking, a few seconds of activity, and months of exaggerating afterwards Grin

-Armen

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norm92de Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 1180 El Paso TX Gender:	Re: Cam chain tensioner revisited Reply #72 - 05/23/16 at 11:46:50 Another thought. Are we correct in assuming that the relatively short life of the chain is due to over tension due to expansion. Or some other factor.
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Re: Cam chain tensioner revisited
Reply #73 - 05/23/16 at 11:52:28

My thought was that the bike has all the right ingredients for a long happy chain life: No power, no crank acceleration, heavy crank and flywheel to even out the power pulses, mild valve springs, and so on. And a Hy-Vo chain.
Made me start scratching my head and looking for a better answer.
Not sure if I'm right, just makes sense.

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norm92de Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 1180 El Paso TX Gender:	Re: Cam chain tensioner revisited Reply #74 - 05/23/16 at 12:10:00 The tensioner does have poor mechanical advantage located low down on the chain compared to most engines where they are located more or less in the middle of the chain throw. Maybe this is why the spring is so strong.
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