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Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak - stripped th (Read 389 times)
ghryx
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Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak - stripped th
02/13/16 at 13:14:25
 
So I completed the plug repair and reassembled, everything was going as planned til I got to final tightening of the very last bolt (figures) and it stripped before I came close to torque. It's the L125 in the diagram. Makes me wonder if it was bad before i started the repair. Ordered a replacement and a spare, just in case my worst nightmare was realized.  And it was. Bolt was stripped, and so is the hole.  Any advice on how to fix this? I've read up on Helicoils and the like, but the deep nature of this hole has me nervous.  I can get it a little better than finger-tight, but not a whole lot more than that.  Undecided
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« Last Edit: 02/14/16 at 11:10:40 by Dave »  
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Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Reply #1 - 02/14/16 at 07:47:08
 
The aluminum is much softer than the bolt.....so the aluminum is where the threads will strip.

If you look at the side of the cylinder, you can see the place in the casting where that bolt goes - you have little chance of doing a proper Helicoil repair in that area without taking the head off.  Also...most helicoil inserts are only the same length as the thread pitch - (6mm in this case), and the threaded part of the aluminum is more like 14mm.  So you will need a longer than standard Helicoiil insert.  The tools you get when you order the kit are not long enough to go through the length needed.

I think your best chance at a repair (without removing the head), is to buy a piece of 6mm threaded rod, insert it into the hole and thread it lightly into the hole and see where it bottoms out....then mark the rod, remove it and cut it to length.  The threads on the bottom should have a slight taper on the end, and there should be some small slots cut to help the rod cut some new threads into the aluminum as you bottom it out in the hole.  Then when you put it back in apply some permanent thread locker and screw the stud down into the cylinder tightly using the "double nut" method.  Let the threadlocker harden for a day or two....then put the nut on top and see if you can tighten a nut onto the stud.....not sure if you should try to torque it.....I would be apt to just make it pretty snug.

Here is a repair I did to the stripped hole just behind the one you have stripped.  The good news is the one you have stripped is not in the oil galley like the one I repaired.  This shows the longer insert needed for the Savage head.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1448209911
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« Last Edit: 02/14/16 at 11:12:56 by Dave »  

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norm92de
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Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak - stripped th
Reply #2 - 02/14/16 at 13:54:32
 
A repair that I have done on various pieces of equipment is to tap the 6mm hole for a 1/4"-20 thread. I did this on boat engines among others. It always worked as long as the hole wasn't opened up too much.

A 6mm X1  bolt is, in my opinion, marginal in aluminium. An American 1/4-20 is far superior for alloy.
Something else that I have never tried would be to tap the hole for 7mmX 1 which at least would match the thread pitch.
One thing that  might be a problem will be the bolt head size. Allen head?
I looked at my engine and it looks feasible. I don't know if 7mm bolts are available but I have a tap for that size.

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Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak - stripped th
Reply #3 - 02/14/16 at 14:42:57
 
I made the 6mm stud for you.....if you want to try it send my your address and I will mail it (you pay me back postage).

Can you take photos and document the process....and let us know if it worked?



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ghryx
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Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak - stripped th
Reply #4 - 02/14/16 at 21:46:49
 
I just emailed you Dave - I apparently haven't posted enough to PM yet. Wink
Both options sound reasonable. I thought the depth of the hole was going to make the Helicoil method unlikely.   I'll keep you posted on the results.

Many thanks!
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Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak - stripped th
Reply #5 - 02/15/16 at 04:37:22
 
What's the nearest but bigger SAE bolt? Daves plan sounds great.

With a cut off and dremel you can slot the bolt and make it workk kinda like a tap..The slot isn't from edge aimed at center, much more shallow. Done it several times
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Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak - stripped th
Reply #6 - 02/15/16 at 04:45:38
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 02/15/16 at 04:37:22:
What's the nearest but bigger SAE bolt? Daves plan sounds great.

With a cut off and dremel you can slot the bolt and make it workk kinda like a tap..The slot isn't from edge aimed at center, much more shallow. Done it several times


I already slotted it....it just doesn't show in the picture.
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Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak - stripped th
Reply #7 - 02/15/16 at 05:18:48
 
Well o course not,that slot is first in..and, it wass For the other guy. But glad you mentioned it. Gives the idea more credibity.
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Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak - stripped th
Reply #8 - 02/15/16 at 07:35:20
 
norm92de wrote on 02/14/16 at 13:54:32:
A repair that I have done on various pieces of equipment is to tap the 6mm hole for a 1/4"-20 thread. I did this on boat engines among others. It always worked as long as the hole wasn't opened up too much.

A 6mm X1  bolt is, in my opinion, marginal in aluminium. An American 1/4-20 is far superior for alloy.
Something else that I have never tried would be to tap the hole for 7mmX 1 which at least would match the thread pitch.
One thing that  might be a problem will be the bolt head size. Allen head?
I looked at my engine and it looks feasible. I don't know if 7mm bolts are available but I have a tap for that size.


If the stud doesn't work DO try this
asa Taxi fleet mechanic I couldn't count the # of times I used this trick to tighten a transmission pan bolt that was stripped, and if you weren't ham fisted it almost always worked
Heck, I didn't even use a tap, I just grabbed the 1/4 bolt and ran it in (don't do that unless you have a sensitive touch for bolts)
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Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak - stripped th
Reply #9 - 02/15/16 at 08:45:30
 
What Dave has suggested is a great idea provided sufficient original thread remains. Also, will the head cap go back on with the new stud sticking up.

Whatever you do end up doing use two quality taps. One ground off to reach the very bottom of the hole. Cylinder heads are expensive, tools are cheap. If you can figure out a method, a Helicoil is probably the best way because  you will be able to use the standard bolt. Also, do you have compressed air to blow out the hole.

Good luck with it. Smiley
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Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak - stripped th
Reply #10 - 02/15/16 at 09:55:22
 
norm92de wrote on 02/15/16 at 08:45:30:
What Dave has suggested is a great idea provided sufficient original thread remains. Also, will the head cap go back on with the new stud sticking up.


The stainless threaded rod is only slightly longer than the original bolt - it will not stick up much....I only tried to leave enough extra for whatever additional distance it might thread down into the hole.  The barrel nut and bolt are only for installation of the threaded rod.

Turns out the issue is only 30 minutes from where I work.....so maybe I can go over and help.

Dave
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Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak - stripped th
Reply #11 - 02/15/16 at 10:24:40
 
Dave,
That would be very nice of you.
A repair like this is tricky at best. Especially trying to do it without removing the cylinder head.
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Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak - stripped th
Reply #12 - 02/15/16 at 10:35:32
 
Dave,
By the way you need a new cloth that one has a hole in it.  Grin
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Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak - stripped th
Reply #13 - 02/17/16 at 03:58:54
 
Yep.....those shop rags are "seconds" - but they were free!  A friend of mine got a few bags of them from a uniform/rag business that supplies those things to shops.....the bag he gave me is a 50 gallon trash bag and it is jammed packed with them.  The rags have some holes, tears or stains in them.....so I guess the company took them out of circulation.  I am set for life with shop rags!

After thinking about this for a few days....I am going to take a "bottoming tap"and weld an extension on it - so that we can get as much good thread in the head as possible.  This hole is not in the oil galley - so making some chips while cutting new threads won't be the problem that it would be if the stripped bolt was the 130mm one at the left rear side.    
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Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak - stripped th
Reply #14 - 02/17/16 at 04:32:55
 
This problem appears to be so common. Has anyone looked into having some stainless bolt made or something? Maybe a Co-op order from a company to make them?
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