Yep....SuzukiSavage.com is not really the place for advanced discussions about your dirt/dual sport bike needs...most of our members aren't on the cutting edge of "doing it in the dirt".  The really advanced dual sport bikes from KTM, Sherco, etc. are most likely very close to being dirt bikes with the parts needed to make them street legal - but likely they lean more for riding in the dirt and won't make a great street bike.  The average entry level dual sport from the Japanese makers are not in that same league for dirt riding....but can be ridden in the dirt.  If you are looking to buy a cheap/affordable used dual sport....I am sure you can find something suitable for a 25 mile ride to work.  The older Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki dual sport bikes are good bikes and will last a very long time if you maintain them properly.

And you can Poo Poo water cooled bikes if you want.....however that is what it takes to make a performance bike fast and competitive and durable - modern water cooled bikes will outperform the older air cooled bikes.  That is true of dirt bikes, street bikes, sport bikes, touring bikes...even Cruisers.  My last dual sport bike was a Kawasaki Super Sherpa 250cc...it was air cooled and simple and it worked really well for local rides - but it was not a great dirt bike, not a great street bike....and the water cooled KLX250 would outperform it in every way.


And to the original issue of riding in the snow.....it is never easy even on a dual sport bike.  Dual Sport tires are a compromise between what works to provide a smooth ride on the street and provide traction in the dirt, and the tires don't get any kind of a bite in the snow and they will just spin and turn the snow into ice.  Knobbys aren't much better if they can't dig down through the snow to the dirt, and if the ground is frozen the knobbies won't get much traction.  On packed snow knobbies can get some traction....and it can make for a very exciting ride. 

MMRanch wrote on 01/27/16 at 23:04:51:


Yep...those are the serious spikes they use in the European Ice racing.  (No...those aren't dual sport bikes they use).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck-yGntqn6k

Interesting bikes... Large narrow tires front and rear... Are they hardtails? Do they even have front suspension? Peculiar rear fender...

Add brakes, a transmission, and rear shocks....and you can then go Grass Track Racing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keUjjKcLuZE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohc1dqAJuhM

Well, guys, I went on one more wild and wacky adventure. This time, though, closer to home. I was holding off on really riding in the snow, but since I gave it a shot in deep snow, I thought I would try it in light snow. There was enough snow to cover the ground well-- maybe an inch or so. I took the challenge. I held it up riding down the driveway. I even held it up riding down that steep, treacherous, snow covered road that the State never got around to plowing. To tell you the truth though, it was tricky for sure. Actually, I had to scrape my logger boots to the ground to hold it back, and I lost track of where my rear brake was for awhile. Got myself in as sticky, or rather, a slippy, for sure. Once I got past that stage of the fight, I played traction control with my front brake. Wouldn't let it lock. Slow it just enough to keep it under control. Once I got to the bottom, I was okay. Still snow covered gravel for awhile, but relatively level.

Once I reached the end of the snow, I called my folks to tell them I made it, but I didn't have a clue how I was going to get back up the mountain.  I went to town to buy some bolts, but they were closed. I thought I could use some gas, but I didn't. It took less than $2 worth. So I accomplished nothing on my excuse of an errand. Gotta have an excuse, you know. I didn't even get a good second test drive for the forks as the road was wet and potentially hazardous.

Well, I gave it a shot coming back up the mountain, and that's where it got tough. I wasn't uphill for long before she spun out from under me and turned half 'round as I'm left picking myself and bike off the slick ground. Bent my clutch handle a bit. With that ice-slick snow, it wasn't the easiest picking it up. Its a good thing I had loggers on. Too bad I don't have loggers for tires. . To some degree, that snow was so slick that I had to jam the heels of those loggers into the dirt in order to secure traction. Now, considering the traction of loggers, THAT'S SLICK!

I straddled that thing and wrestled it up that hill. Now that's a workout! Try to do that with a full-size Harley, and you're liable to find yourself slid backwards off a cliff.  . That's the value with a light bike. They can be manhandled in a pinch. Kinda hard on the engine and clutch. It's not at all about revving it and burning up the clutch. It's about lugging the motor and simply wearing out the clutch trying to ease the thing uphill. Oh, well, If I like  to work on bikes.... Its a good thing I didn't have tall gearing, or I would have really been in trouble. Another interesting fact is that I used the shoulder of the road (the side with the cliff ) a good amount of the time because it was unpacked and loose, there was something hang onto.

Dropped it a second time on that hill and bent the other peg (already broke the other one a long time ago). I think it was past the steep part. I doubt it was very steep at all there.

Eventually, I made it up that hill, and passed my parents in their UTV. I guess they were getting the mail and checking on me.

I finally made it to the house, but not without a few rest breaks along my struggle. My parents got to see me fight the thing a few times as they followed me up the driveway.



Now, since I've told my story about using my little beat up cruiser for a dirt bike (scrambler), I've been wondering about technique. You don't have to tell me if you don't want to. I'm wondering if I shouldn't look it up myself. It seems that keeping a little speed helps keep the bike upright, but if you do lose control, the crash is worse. Seems more risky. I probably would have crashed anyway with a running go, and it would have been worse. Another thing is foot position. It seems, both from my experience, including today, and what I recall and was taught, that keeping one's feet on the pegs, and legs against the tank helps stability. However, once you get into trouble, what can be done in that position? Not much, it seems.

Part of the trip was fun. Giving a little gas in the snow where it's level gives a nice, controllable mini snow burnout. Makes for good practice holding the bike up in tough conditions. Now I just need to do this every single day. . Well... I'm not quite that enthused, but It should help my biking skills, anyway. Just as long as I can keep from breaking things and getting hurt. Didn't get hurt today, at least And that knee still hasn't healed, but through all that, I think its actually doing better.   Guess it needed some physical therapy.

I think I'll mostly hold off on the mountain though, especially if there's no way of getting back up.

At least I don't have to fix my turn signals again, AFAIK.

Maybe I could use a little dual sport or turn my Savage into a real scrambler.

I've found that rear tire to be the most trouble. I found that snow riding works best driving level or downhill. Downhill is tricky and dangerous, but uphill can be a nightmare. You spin out, and when you spin out, the bike goes places... sometimes too far. The front didn't seem to give ANYWHERE near the trouble of the rear of the bike. The front just mostly goes with it unless there's too much brake pressure.

I wonder if its more in the handlebars, the legs, abs, or something else. You don't really have to tell me. I wonder how most people figure this out. Maybe they just do it as kids on little dirt bikes till they figure it out. Should I figure it out myself like they do? Should I buy a book? Do they write books on dirt bike technique?

That little Yamaha TW200 with its big truck tires should do pretty good in the snow. I doesn't go all that fast but if you're riding it to work in the snow, no one should be going all that fast. If I can sell my extra Savage and an old Honda, I might get one.

I'm like you, I'd want the kick start so that would mean an older model.