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High gearing seizes engine/gearing for speed. (Read 414 times)
Art Webb
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Re: Top speed and gearing...
Reply #45 - 04/05/16 at 08:23:24
 
cheapnewb24 wrote on 04/04/16 at 10:07:22:
Art Webb wrote on 04/04/16 at 07:56:01:
I held an indicated 95 on mine, stock, no mods, IRC rear tire
Then I put on a 140/90, bags, and a big windshield and dropped the top speed to an indicated 75-80 MPH, depending on wind
windshield less it'd hit an indicated 85-90 depending on wind
it is not gearing limited, it is power limited, understand that, adding a taller gear will lower your rpm at 70, but not raise your top speed with a stock engine
Yes, a taller gear will make it more PLEASANT at 70-75, but will not add speed, and adding too much gear will actually slow it down more at the top end



By the way, Art, were you doing 95 in 4th or 5th gear?

either / or
it'd hit 95 in 4th
it'd hit 95 in 5
95 was IT
and that was
feet on rear pegs
laying on tank
sitting up was an automatic drop to 90
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verslagen1
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Re: High gearing seizes engine!?
Reply #46 - 04/05/16 at 08:51:51
 
I suggest you quit your b!tchin' and twist it.
even the stocker will do 88 uphill with a severe handicap... me!
beast does 95 up the same hill but I had to let off cause traffic was beginning to be like a slalom course.
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cheapnewb24
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Re: High gearing seizes engine!?
Reply #47 - 04/06/16 at 22:10:08
 
verslagen1 wrote on 04/05/16 at 08:51:51:
I suggest you quit your b!tchin' and twist it.
even the stocker will do 88 uphill with a severe handicap... me!
beast does 95 up the same hill but I had to let off cause traffic was beginning to be like a slalom course.


Well, Slavy, since you obviously love this argument so much, I'll keep it going just for you.  Grin

Do you pin your car in top gear at normal speeds? Or do you downshift? Higher gears are not only for going fast, but for saving gas and (sometimes) making it easier on the engine. If you really need acceleration and you've got a hill, then grab a lower gear. I went up a grade today in fifth. Seemed a little easier in fourth though. Still, does it really matter that much?It's not like you're lugging at 3500-4000 or more rpm, right? Do you really need to be able to do everything in top gear? Do bicyclists use top gear for everything? If he does, he is either one tough cookie, or his gearing is a bit short.

Is it better to let a 3.5 inch stroke engine rev to 5k all the time or to hold it at high loads? It seems that we're in between a rock and a hard spot. Drag it too low and you lug it because it's a poor little one-lunger. Rev it, and you have to think, "Isn't that hard on it?"

Now, isn't it true that the forces on an engine increase exponentially with engine speed or something like that? Or am I getting things mixed up?

So, for our thumper, wouldn't revving be a bit worse than loading? Anybody wore out a Savage by loading? How about by high revving? Always reading here about somebody warning that Savages use oil when they're run fast on the highway. Is this more from work/load or from revving?

Slavy, If you can go just as fast and save gas and make things easier on your motor, would you do it?

Now, I've got twisties and hills, so I can't say for sure how I would like taller gearing. You gotta have some revs for twisties and hills. I'm going to guess I'll like the bigger tire when I put it on, but I'm not sure about a 17/43 or anything like that.

How big a crankshaft journal does one need before he decides it's better not to rev it like a Kawasaki Ninja. Grin How long a stroke does one need before he can load it down without fearing that he's ruining his crank bearings? Can a big-stroked thumper win? Or is she hopelessly caught between conflicting forces: lugging, which tries to beat her to death, and revving, which tries to sling her off into pieces?
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cheapnewb24
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Re: High gearing seizes engine!?
Reply #48 - 04/06/16 at 22:24:27
 
Interesting how a Sportster, with a stroke of nearly 4 inches, can make so much power at even higher engine speeds than our thumper. http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/h-d/harley_davidson_xl_883_sportster%2...

Wonder if it is healthy to rev it that hard so often.
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Re: High gearing seizes engine!?
Reply #49 - 04/07/16 at 04:33:22
 



Reminds me of Bill, he does.....
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cheapnewb24
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Re: High gearing seizes engine/gearing for speed.
Reply #50 - 04/07/16 at 08:58:10
 
Grin

Ahh... Bill and his magic red oil?
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cheapnewb24
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Re: High gearing seizes engine/gearing for speed.
Reply #51 - 04/07/16 at 10:29:56
 
Here's an interesting article:

http://www.400gt.com/articles/Metal/stress.htm

Haven't studied it really well yet.

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Re: High gearing seizes engine!?
Reply #52 - 04/07/16 at 12:51:47
 
cheapnewb24 wrote on 04/06/16 at 22:24:27:
Interesting how a Sportster, with a stroke of nearly 4 inches, can make so much power at even higher engine speeds than our thumper. http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/h-d/harley_davidson_xl_883_sportster%2...

Wonder if it is healthy to rev it that hard so often.


Judging from what I'm seeing as I dis-assemble my engine, the Savage 652cc suffers from serious breathing  problems.  The exuast port is the villain.  No wonder it runs out of steam at 6K RPM.  It can't get the exuast gas out of the compression chamber fast enough.  The power band would go higher and further with a opened up exuast port.
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Re: High gearing seizes engine/gearing for speed.
Reply #53 - 04/07/16 at 15:42:16
 
Indian

If the header pipe had a bigger ID. would that fix it ?
_
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Re: High gearing seizes engine/gearing for speed.
Reply #54 - 04/07/16 at 16:04:23
 
MMRanch wrote on 04/07/16 at 15:42:16:
Indian

If the header pipe had a bigger ID. would that fix it ?
_


Not nearly as much as opening up the exuast port.   As far as I'm concerned, opening up the exuast port is THE key to maximizing the potential  effects of a new cam and carb work.  A larger header would be a plus when combined with every thing else, but would not make up for a restrictive exuast port.     (You can only force so much hot air through a 1/4 inch pipe as compared to a 5/8 inch pipe.)   Wink 
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Re: High gearing seizes engine/gearing for speed.
Reply #55 - 04/07/16 at 17:30:49
 
don't look at the valve spec's, I don't think you can take it.
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cheapnewb24
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Re: High gearing seizes engine/gearing for speed.
Reply #56 - 04/07/16 at 17:45:08
 
From driving it today, 4th gear seems to pull better and easier under load at regular highway speeds. But we still need a cruising gear. 5th does the job somewhat, but we could use a little more. If the gap between 4th and 5th had been simply doubled, the gearing would probably be just right, wouldn't it?

It would place 55 mph right around 3400, right around the crest of the torque curve and the minimum for high speed travel. Honestly, though, I can't say it's good for really hard loads, more for cruising.

When I change my tire, it should make a noticeable difference, especially since that old tire of mine doesn't have the diameter it used to.

I've estimated that the gearing difference with the new tire will be almost 6.5%. From the charts, it looks like I'm almost getting a new gear. 4th will be just somewhat lower than where 5th was.
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Re: High gearing seizes engine/gearing for speed.
Reply #57 - 04/07/16 at 17:48:55
 
verslagen1 wrote on 04/07/16 at 17:30:49:
don't look at the valve spec's, I don't think you can take it.


Yeah, I know. But, nobody said we wanted to design a new head, just do the best with what we got........
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Re: High gearing seizes engine/gearing for speed.
Reply #58 - 04/07/16 at 22:51:06
 
cheapnewb24 wrote on 04/07/16 at 17:45:08:
From driving it today, 4th gear seems to pull better and easier under load at regular highway speed.


There's your problem right there. Too many gears to choose from. My cabbage has a 4 speed box and its f..ing awesome. Riding a big single is about popping around not caring how fast the others go,changing gears if you feel like it and looking and sounding good. Personally, if I want to wick it up, I jump on a different bike....
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Art Webb
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Re: High gearing seizes engine/gearing for speed.
Reply #59 - 04/08/16 at 07:18:03
 
yes a Taller gear would have been better in some ways, and you always have 4
th for passing, but we got what we got, and that's all what we got, so what the hell, gotta live with it
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