SuzukiSavage.com - High gearing seizes engine/gearing for speed.

Serowbot YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline OK.... so what's the speed of dark? Posts: 28637 Tucson Az Gender:	Re: Top speed and gearing... Reply #30 - 04/03/16 at 23:12:48 verslagen1 wrote on 04/03/16 at 23:09:59: Serowbot wrote on 04/03/16 at 23:06:50: If I put on a size 14 shoe,... will I run faster?... Hmmmmm?..... no but you'll ski faster Sure,.. ....off a cliff... like I said... Everything's faster off a cliff... Maybe not cooking... .. or Scrabble... okay,.. not everything...
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gizzo Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiCabbage. It's Savage. Posts: 1318 Australia	Re: Top speed and gearing... Reply #31 - 04/04/16 at 02:25:23 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-LBI4wUA8k
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Re: Top speed and gearing...
Reply #32 - 04/04/16 at 02:28:32

cheapnewb24 wrote on 04/03/16 at 15:40:27:

How is that?!?!

Or why?

Maybe rider weight plays into this? Maybe they geared the Savage best for 2-up riding? Isn't that a little unreasonable?

I doubt people are fond of running their Royal Enfields in 4th gear at 85 mph given their power curve. Using 5th gear at this speed seems very fitting, and if that little 500 can do it, surely our big 650 can do it.

Wait a minute, Oldfeller!

Your bike is well modded. You've got plenty of power. Do you have the 17/43 chain conversion or something? Something is not adding up.

I'd say fifth gear is far from useless once you get up to 60 mph.

You are not listening ...... for maximum speed pick up (acceleration) do your all your major work in 3rd gear, shift to 4th and pick up a little extra top end speed, shift to 5th and lose some top end speed, but pick up "some" better gas mileage.

My gearing is stock, my engine is not but all this still applies to stock bikes as well. None of us have the raw hp to make 5th gear work like you would like to think it would.

5th gear is for loafing around on interstates and 55mph roads. Shifting into 5th before then is counter-productive and if you do it before 45mph you are actually lugging your engine some, which is mildly harmful.

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cheapnewb24 Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 1373 Virginia Gender:	Re: Top speed and gearing... Reply #33 - 04/04/16 at 06:10:41 What about shifting into 5th at 60 mph? 70? 75? 80??? When is 5th gear of any use? Hutch said he held 95 in 5th with the 17/43 chain conversion, and that is pretty tall gearing. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1174239333
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Art Webb

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Re: Top speed and gearing...
Reply #34 - 04/04/16 at 07:56:01

I held an indicated 95 on mine, stock, no mods, IRC rear tire
Then I put on a 140/90, bags, and a big windshield and dropped the top speed to an indicated 75-80 MPH, depending on wind
windshield less it'd hit an indicated 85-90 depending on wind
it is not gearing limited, it is power limited, understand that, adding a taller gear will lower your rpm at 70, but not raise your top speed with a stock engine
Yes, a taller gear will make it more PLEASANT at 70-75, but will not add speed, and adding too much gear will actually slow it down more at the top end

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cheapnewb24

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Re: Top speed and gearing...
Reply #35 - 04/04/16 at 10:00:08

Didn't I say at the beginning of this thread that you won't gain much, but you wouldn't lose it either? Roll Eyes

If you're speedometer was accurate with stock gearing (some are not from what I read), then, if you're able to reach and maintain 95 under reasonable conditions (not downhill or tailwind), then you might be able to gain a little more top end with modestly taller gearing. Why??? It's simple. At 95, you're close to redline and you're not making as much horsepower as you would a little lower down in rpm. Now, if, by chance, the power curve behaves differently on the road as compared to on the dyno, then the situation may be different. If you're getting a top end boost somehow with all that wind, the situation would be different.

Doing 6k rpm with a 3.5 inch stroke is kinda hard on the engine, is it not?

If the speedometer were 5 mph optimistic with the stock tire, the situation would be different as well. However, doing even 90 mph with stock setup is past the engine's prime.

One may not lose top speed with modest gear increases in some cases, and may even stand to gain, but, I will go with you on this one.

If you're having a hard time pulling 80 mph actual with the big tire, and all that gear, you've lost a little top-end. Therefore, tall gearing may not be right for your situation.

I ride a naked bike. I will probably put leather bags on it for practical reasons.

This is starting to make sense now. Suzuki probably designed the bike to be able to top out in fifth under any typical condition that would likely be thrown at it, including big windshields. They didn't gear it to push it's limits with someone hunkered down in the seat. They didn't want to risk it bogging. And... they probably wanted quick acceleration and easy city driving too.

Hmmm... Perhaps Suzuki engineers kept 5th gear stupidly low (4th-5th gap small) because they knew the EPA would downjet the carb. Ahh... I've got it! They were accommodating to the anemic California model even more, right?

The bike was designed for basic commuting and beginners. Despite their modest gesture of a highway gear, top end and highway rpms weren't high on the priority list compared to performance at lower speeds.

And perhaps Hutch's success had to do with things like lack of windshield and other wind catchers (assumedly), low body weight, and tuning/power mods.

Maybe this gearing stuff is a very individual thing.

Am I getting warm?

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cheapnewb24

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Re: Top speed and gearing...
Reply #36 - 04/04/16 at 10:07:22

Art Webb wrote on 04/04/16 at 07:56:01:

I held an indicated 95 on mine, stock, no mods, IRC rear tire
Then I put on a 140/90, bags, and a big windshield and dropped the top speed to an indicated 75-80 MPH, depending on wind
windshield less it'd hit an indicated 85-90 depending on wind
it is not gearing limited, it is power limited, understand that, adding a taller gear will lower your rpm at 70, but not raise your top speed with a stock engine
Yes, a taller gear will make it more PLEASANT at 70-75, but will not add speed, and adding too much gear will actually slow it down more at the top end

By the way, Art, were you doing 95 in 4th or 5th gear?

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Re: Top speed and gearing...
Reply #37 - 04/04/16 at 12:20:36

cheapnewb24 wrote on 04/04/16 at 06:10:41:

What about shifting into 5th at 60 mph? 70? 75? 80??? When is 5th gear of any use? Huh

Hutch said he held 95 in 5th with the 17/43 chain conversion, and that is pretty tall gearing.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1174239333

5th gear is of marginal use to save fuel (miles per gallon) at any speed at or above 50mph.

That is it's only use. 5th does not go faster or accelerate quicker --- it just saves gas.

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Kris01 Serious Thumper Offline Eat, sleep, RIDE! Posts: 3767 Tennessee Gender:	Re: Top speed and gearing... Reply #38 - 04/04/16 at 18:11:23 Let me sum this up: Wind resistance wreaks havoc on ANY motorcycle. We just ain't aerodynamic. It will take a lot more hp that we don't have to raise the top speed. Wind resistance rises exponentially as speed increases. Double your speed, quadruple the resistance!
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old.indian Serious Thumper Offline Fighting Foreign Terrorism since 1492 Posts: 975 Central New Mexico Gender:	Re: Top speed and gearing... Reply #39 - 04/04/16 at 19:54:38 If you are looking for top speed, why are you ridding a single cylinder ??? If you are looking to do a ton for hours on end you need something more than a 652cc single cylinder with the aerodynamics of a refrigerator.
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Re: Top speed and gearing...
Reply #40 - 04/04/16 at 22:10:18

CheepNewB

you know instead a chain and sprockets ... you can put a two (2) tooth bigger front pulley on you S-40. It takes a little doing on your part but its easy to do . The front pulley off a Kawaski 454 or 500 belt drive unit has the same splines - but you'll have to cut the thickness of the pulley some. Wink

I've done two of them and find a angle grinder works eats up the excess in a hurry. Grin

Fact is Dave has the larger front and a smaller rear pulley. The rear off a Kawaski 750 belt drive (early 80's) has the same teeth as our belts. So the larger front pulley will have you rear wheel scooted all the way to the front of the swingarm . doing both Kawaski pullys will have your tire at the back of the swing arm . Yea using the original belt ! Wink

I had both on a stock engine once --- it was too much tall gear , I did 80mph (gps) in second gear once just to see how high it would go. But 5th gear still pulled all the hills in my area , including the same one that my S-10 PU (2.5L) would only do 45mph over-the-top speed no matter how fast I'd hit the bottom at. Shocked

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HovisPresley

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Re: Top speed and gearing...
Reply #41 - 04/04/16 at 22:12:26

Aerodynamics of a refrigerator Grin

Well, this not only qualifies on the aerodynamic front, but also looks part 'fridge as well...... except that a 'fridge has a brighter light bulb.....and yes, I own one......and yes, they are aesthetically challenging Embarrassed

As for speeds/gearing, the last thing on this Savage owner's mind is the top speed, but instead enjoying the character and charm of the engine when it's 'singing'.

The mention of doing 85 on an Enfield Bullet Shocked

......say goodbye to the fillings in your teeth and say hello to your 'piles' of discomfort.

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Serowbot YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline OK.... so what's the speed of dark? Posts: 28637 Tucson Az Gender:	Re: Top speed and gearing... Reply #42 - 04/04/16 at 23:05:07 Hovis, that front fender cracks me up... It's like Jaws!...
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HovisPresley Serious Thumper Offline Good Vibrations! Posts: 991 Midlands, UK Gender:	Re: Top speed and gearing... Reply #43 - 04/04/16 at 23:13:28 Apparently you can use it to scoop up stray dogs and chuck them over your shoulder....or maybe Google Translate got that wrong
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Re: Top speed and gearing...
Reply #44 - 04/04/16 at 23:26:18

Hovis, you have.....interesting....taste in motorbikes. I kind of dig the MZ too. Love that death ray headlight. I gotta say, the vibration from my Enfield isn't too horrible. Not enough to shake the fillings out, for sure. It seems to vary from bike to bike, and depends on whether the trained monkey in the factory built a good or a bad crank. Other owners complain about parts falling off and having to fill handlebars with lead shot or even selling the bike. I guess I got lucky.

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