SuzukiSavage.com - Shell Rotella - ZDDP level remains at 1,200 PPM

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Shell Rotella - ZDDP level remains at 1,200 PPM
01/06/16 at 05:38:44

I contacted Shell and they state they have not changed their ZDDP level. Here is a copy of their response when I stated their ZDDP level was reported to have been reduced to 1,100 ppm:

Dave,

Your information is incorrect. The zinc content of our Shell Rotella T multi-grade oils (including Shell ROTELLA® T Triple Protection Oil SAE 15W-40 and Shell ROTELLA T6 Full Synthetic Oil SAE 5W-40) has not changed since the 2006-2008 timeframe, and continues to be approximately 1200 ppm.

Thank you for your interest in Shell/Pennzoil/Quaker State Lubricants!

Regards,
Edward A. Calcote
Staff Chemist
Shell Lubricants North America Technical Information Center

I have lost the reference to the 1,100 ppm that started this discussion and resulted in the change to the ZDDP blend table....anyone know where that discussion is?

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Serowbot YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline OK.... so what's the speed of dark? Posts: 28663 Tucson Az Gender:	Re: Shell Rotella - ZDDP level remains at 1,200 PP Reply #1 - 01/06/16 at 06:22:36 http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1446553641/0
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Re: Shell Rotella - ZDDP level remains at 1,200 PP
Reply #2 - 01/06/16 at 06:27:57

Serowbot wrote on 01/06/16 at 06:22:36:

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1446553641/0

Serowbot:

That thread doesn't include the source of the 1,100 PPM rumor. Somebody posted a test result or some data that showed Shell had lowered the ZDDP level, and I was trying to find that source to send it to the fellow at Shell.

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Serowbot YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline OK.... so what's the speed of dark? Posts: 28663 Tucson Az Gender:	Re: Shell Rotella - ZDDP level remains at 1,200 PP Reply #3 - 01/06/16 at 06:42:23 ??... This it??...... http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1445393785/30#30
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Dave YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 18099 Camp Springs, Kentucky Gender:	Re: Shell Rotella - ZDDP level remains at 1,200 PP Reply #4 - 01/06/16 at 06:52:30 Yep....thasit: I will send them this link, and see what the comment is about the Zinc level. http://www.pqiamerica.com/May%202013/rotella.htm
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Serowbot YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline OK.... so what's the speed of dark? Posts: 28663 Tucson Az Gender:	Re: Shell Rotella - ZDDP level remains at 1,200 PP Reply #5 - 01/06/16 at 07:01:15 Glad you contacted Shell... not only gives us the correct info, it lets them know of our concern about zddp levels... "All hail Shell Rotella!"... ... Thanks, Dave...
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Rodger Senior Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 256	Re: Shell Rotella - ZDDP level remains at 1,200 PP Reply #6 - 01/06/16 at 07:38:45 So, just to be clear, adding 1 fluid ounce of Redline to 1 gallon of Rotella 15w40 "dino oil" still gets us in the 1400 ppm range, right?
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cheapnewb24

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Re: Shell Rotella - ZDDP level remains at 1,200 PP
Reply #7 - 01/06/16 at 09:16:38

http://www.ecooptimized.com/index.php/gasoline/80-three-way-catalysts-aging-c...

Strangely, this article seems to suggest that zinc and phosphorus hurt the engine. Huh

Whaaat!?

Maybe they are referring to other contaminants????

Maybe they are thinking about O2 sensor damage? Does it destroy them by the way, or just get them dirty? Can they be cleaned?

Here's something on ZDDP levels at various years.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=printthread&Board=1&m...

Looks like Rotella already has a good amount of the stuff compared to the typical oils of the past. Any addition is more like "just a pinch more." A teaspoon, or two, at the most, should be all that is needed.

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Art Webb Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 3007 columbus, Texas Gender:	Re: Shell Rotella - ZDDP level remains at 1,200 PP Reply #8 - 01/06/16 at 09:30:46 st 1200-1400, it's good for the engine, above that it can hurt it below that, as the article states, it damages the catalysts This is the reason most motor oils don't have it any more
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prechermike Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Kalashna Kitty, from Skat Posts: 1190 Ponzer, NC Gender:	Re: Shell Rotella - ZDDP level remains at 1,200 PP Reply #9 - 01/06/16 at 10:52:28 YOU MEAN I BOUGHT A BOTTLE OF THAT RED LINE STUFF FOR NUTHIN!
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cheapnewb24 Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 1373 Virginia Gender:	Re: Shell Rotella - ZDDP level remains at 1,200 PP Reply #10 - 01/06/16 at 11:51:55 Well, you could use a little of it.
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Re: Shell Rotella - ZDDP level remains at 1,200 PP
Reply #11 - 01/07/16 at 05:02:05

I have sent a request for the Chemist at Shell to see if he will comment on the accuracy of testing for ZDDP.

The definitions for ZDDP I found states: "Zinc dialkyldithiophosphates (often referred to as ZDDP) are a family of coordination compounds developed in the 1940s[1] that feature zinc bound to the anion of dithiophosphoric acid. These uncharged compounds are not salts. They are soluble in nonpolar solvents, and the longer chain derivatives easily dissolve in mineral and synthetic oils used as lubricants."

When testing is done they don't report on the amount of ZDDP in the oil - instead they provide the content of Zinc and Phosphorous.

http://www.pqiamerica.com/May%202013/rotella.htm

I am currently thinking that the testing process most likely cannot test for the combined Zinc/Phosphorous that makes up the ZDDP....and in the testing process the ZDDP is disassociated into the separate Zinc and Phosphorous contents. And there most likely is some loss of accuracy in the testing process a well.

Hopefully the Chemist at Shell will help to clear this issue up for us.

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Dave YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 18099 Camp Springs, Kentucky Gender:	Re: Shell Rotella - ZDDP level remains at 1,200 PP Reply #12 - 01/07/16 at 05:58:56 Well....no luck with that request. Dear Sir, We do not comment on analyses or methods performed by other laboratories. You would need to contact them directly for information on their methods, procedures, and repeatability etc…. Regards, Shell Technical
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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Shell Rotella - ZDDP level remains at 1,200 PP Reply #13 - 01/07/16 at 07:02:44 In other words, Shell stands by their lab tests and will not engage in a contest with someone who claims otherwise. Thanks for the efforts, and, if I was doing it, the only next step I see is contact the lab that st a rted it.
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Re: Shell Rotella - ZDDP level remains at 1,200 PP
Reply #14 - 01/07/16 at 11:37:10

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I might have a way of providing some preliminary tests/analysis, but I'm not certain it will provide positive results or results that are of value. I work (5 months new to this industry) in the nano-scale industry and we work with enhanced darkfield hyperspectral imaging. What this means is that I can look at particles (down to about 20nm) suspended in well vortexed solution (oil) and get an idea of the concentration (percentage of particles identified in a certain spatial area) that with some math could elude to the concentration levels of the ZDDP. I can get some images of the standard RT6, ZDDP, and RT6 with ZDDP and see if we can ascertain something. The trick is whether or not I can separate what particles are ZDDP and what particles are other stuff, but the software has tricks that may let me figure that out.

Making no promises, but I'll see if I have time next week to get something underway.

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