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No power in first, second, etc (Read 180 times)
jjthejetplane
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No power in first, second, etc
12/21/15 at 11:13:50
 
So, I am becoming a regular with my many savage issues but I don't even know how to begin to search for a solution for this problem so I figured I'd just ask-

Took the bike to have the tire tested today and realized that it's tubeless. No inner tube to poke. So, there's that.
On the ride back in as I was coming up a very small hill, I noticed the bike losing power. At first I thought maybe I'd accidentally knocked it into neutral and tried shifting down. Surprise, sorpresa, I was in first. So then I started thinking this is the infamous clutch slippage I have heard so much about and pushing my weight forward, shifted up into second while ripping the throttle full blast. I actually started rolling backwards.
The cars were lining up behind me so I had to push her to the side and break out the tool bag-which is always with me.
I took off the seat and tank and checked all my connections. I didn't see anything amiss. I noticed some smoking coming from up under the tank and upon closer inspection noticed what appears to be oil on the upper left side of my engine. I scraped some off with my key and it's black and viscous. I don't want to let my paranoia get the better of me so will refrain from guesswork here. I put everything back on and gave it the old Harvard try again, I made it half a block in first with it decreasing in speed (went from 10-1mph) back up the block and up the hill with me giving it full throttle. I made the ride back from the tire shop no problem and have had no issues, engine wise or power wise my entire trip from VA with the exception of the cable disconnection outside of NC. Any suggestions will be helpful. I didn't know how to abbreviate this to a simple query for an archive search.


Jaye
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Serowbot
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OK.... so what's the
speed of dark?

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Re: No power in first, second, etc
Reply #1 - 12/21/15 at 11:33:18
 
You have a "tubeless" tire, but it's on a spoked rim that requires a tube...
Most of our tires are tubeless,... but they do use a tube.
So,... you do have a tube...

Power loss?...
Was the engine bogging,.. or revving up and going nowhere?...
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Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
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jjthejetplane
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Re: No power in first, second, etc
Reply #2 - 12/21/15 at 12:15:31
 
Revving up and going nowhere. Ok, so then I may still have a tire issue? I will keep checking it. The guy pumped air back in before telling me the reading. I am at 34psi ATM.

The engine sounded strong, just roaring and going nowhere.
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Serowbot
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OK.... so what's the
speed of dark?

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Re: No power in first, second, etc
Reply #3 - 12/21/15 at 12:34:26
 
That would be a clutch problem...
Hopefully,.. just in the cable.  
Check that it isn't kinked or restricted in it's path, and that the lever is adjusted.  
Disconnect at the hand lever, and spray some lube down the inside of the cable (you can make a funky funnel on the end with some tape to save mess) spray or drip lube until you see it leak out the bottom at the actuator on the clutch case.  (There are special cable lubes, but anything oily will work... 3 n'1, lithium spray, WD-40, Liquid Wrench, even engine oil)...
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Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
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jjthejetplane
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Re: No power in first, second, etc
Reply #4 - 12/21/15 at 12:38:22
 
Are there any links in the archive that will help? I am going to try to tackle it while I have daylight. Thanks
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Re: No power in first, second, etc
Reply #5 - 12/21/15 at 13:38:42
 
Agreeing with Serowbot on tire question. A wire-spoke wheel isn't sealed like most cast wheels because there's a hole thru the wheel's rim for every wire spoke. Most cycle tires are rated "tubeless," which means they can be installed on a tubeless wheel, but require an inner tube on wire-spoked wheels. You may have "dodged a bullet," but keep a verrrrry close eye on the rear tire's pressure.

I've used a plastic sandwich baggie to lube brake or clutch cables. First, remove the clutch lever by removing the lever's pivot bolt and disconnect the cable from the lever. Then cut off one corner of the baggie - just enough to let the upper, clutch-lever-end to poke into the bag. Tightly wrap a heavy rubber band around the baggie/cable. Pour a small amount of lubricant into the baggie, enough to cover the outer cable housing where the cable comes out. Tie or clip the cable as high as possible so the lube can run down inside the cable housing. Then watch for the oil to drip out the bottom of the clutch cable housing, down by the right rear corner of the engine. Hopefully, it's just a sticky cable that's hanging up & keeping the clutch from engaging.
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Kris01
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Re: No power in first, second, etc
Reply #6 - 12/21/15 at 17:32:39
 
How many miles on it?
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Chase
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Re: No power in first, second, etc
Reply #7 - 12/23/15 at 01:49:47
 
When you were going up hill and opened the throttle all the way did the bike match rpm's or did it big down sputter and pop
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justin_o_guy2
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What happened?

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Re: No power in first, second, etc
Reply #8 - 12/23/15 at 16:39:19
 
Is there any free play in the clutch lever? It should move freely a little bit. Then, if there Is free play, look at the engine case and see where the clutch actuation arm is, relative to the marks the factory put on the motor/ clutch cover,

How many miles on the bike?
What oil are you using?
When you pull away from a stop, are you slipping the clutch usually?
When it's slipping and you goose it, it's seriously glazing the disks.
I'm Hoping it's just an adjustment problem, but, how much it got hurt by winding up the RPMs is the next question, IF the reason it slipped was just the clutch cable adjustment being too tight.
It's possible that the rod ( Dave's gonna be so proud of me ) is needing replaced with a shorter one. The position of the actuator arm will tell if that's what is the Reason it slipped.
Also, what oil is in it matters.
You may get away with an adjustment. You may be going into the clutch cover and maybe even have to pull the clutch and check out the disks.
What oil?
Miles on the bike?
Position of the clutch arm?
Slack in the clutch lever on the handlebars?
How much time did you let it run and slip?
Before it did that, did anyone DO anything to the bike?
Did you watch the guy who was checking out the tire?
How long after the visit to the tire guy did it start messing up?


Friction is friction. Get tires sliding and the stopping power drops off.
A slipping clutch needs to get the rear wheel/transmission/engine all synchronized and stop slipping. Spinning the engine up, changing to a higher gear, just makes it easier for it to slip.
You have the number. I'm just chilling, watching the tube.
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jjthejetplane
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Re: No power in first, second, etc
Reply #9 - 12/23/15 at 19:53:36
 
Sorry guys, I forgot to check the box to be notified of replies.
I was wondering at the radio silence.
I haven't had an opportunity to work on it. Atlanta is being rained out.
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jjthejetplane
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Re: No power in first, second, etc
Reply #10 - 12/23/15 at 19:55:08
 
It never sputtered when going uphill, it just never moved. I was essentially stationary. When I was on  a level surface I was able to get it rolling enough to power it uphill to the house but I was remiss to try it again and end up pushing in the rain.
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Re: No power in first, second, etc
Reply #11 - 12/23/15 at 20:45:52
 
Well... Maybe it has the wrong engine oil, and when it broke loose, it just kept slipping?  Huh Have you had slippage issues before? What oil is in it, and how many miles ago? Clutch disk glazing, maybe? Clutch linkages sticking?

If you want to know, take it for a test drive. Pick a time with low traffic in a safe place/situation that would likely trigger the problem.

Practice pulling out on steep hills; if that clutch is going to lose its grip, that will probably be when it happens, especially if you give it some gas and get your rpms up. Of course, that won't help your clutch last any longer Roll Eyes, but that might help your diagnosis. Even on level land, giving some throttle might help you test the soft Savage clutch.
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jjthejetplane
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Re: No power in first, second, etc
Reply #12 - 12/24/15 at 07:21:12
 
I haven't had any slippage issues. I rode it about 800 mi after an oil change. I changed it myself and bought the SAE bike oil that was recommended on here. I believe it was Mobil. I changed the filter out also for a K&N. I believe I have roughly 25,000 mi. It's an 02. It is still raining here in GA so I cannot get out to work on it.
I laid it down in Richmond, Va and thought the grip in my clutch had tightened, wondering if that could be part of the problem.
It was barely rolling on level ground, I was thanking the stars that it made it up the hill. I had just ridden it five mi to the tire shop and back though. I decided to go for one last loop around the neighborhood and that is when it pretty much stopped on me. I was mid hill and lost all momentum. I felt the bike start to roll backwards and thought I'd slipped into neutral. I watched the speedometer drop to 0 but the engine kept revving, never waned. That's why I initially thought something was disconnected.

I stayed with the bike while he checked the tire. He didn't touch anything. I hadn't ridden in a week or so because of the nail. It hard started and it was a little twitchy out of the gate..as if it wanted to shut off but I had a smooth ride to and back from the tire shop. It was as I was maybe 10 yds from the house that it stopped on me. I tried a few times going full throttle, three times maybe when it stopped and then, again as I tested it out after pulling the tank and seat to check the wiring.

The clutch felt tighter after I laid it down but I think my grip has adjusted to it or it loosened bc I no longer feel the difference-but that was about 500 mi back.

I am going to study some diagrams. It looks like GA will be getting rain into the new year. Hoping I don't get caught in the flash flooding. Happy holidays everyone! Thanks for the help!
JOG, I will hit you up after the holiday when I pull her apart. Thanks!
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justin_o_guy2
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What happened?

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Re: No power in first, second, etc
Reply #13 - 12/24/15 at 11:54:53
 
Call before you grab a wrench.
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Steve H
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Re: No power in first, second, etc
Reply #14 - 12/25/15 at 05:43:19
 
If there are any questions about the lever/cable, why not get the bike in a safe position to do so and disconnect the clutch cable at the engine.

Start the bike in 1st gear.  It'd be a bumpy start but shouldn't be terrible.
If there's no slippage like that, then it's a cable, lever, or adjustment.  If there is, it would have to be the clutch.

Hope you get it soon.
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