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4th to 5th gear ? (Read 654 times)
chzeckmate
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Re: 4th to 5th gear ?
Reply #45 - 12/27/15 at 00:22:52
 
Art Webb wrote on 12/26/15 at 17:24:57:
I don't have difficulty with it, but the bike isn't happy there all the time, , either
riding a Savage at 70 sometimes is fine
riding it there all the time will wear the thing out prematurely


Mine seems very happy there, even with a strong headwind.  80 is where mine seems to begin to have a lot of chatter.  I rarely ever drive that fast so not really an issue for me.  Recently, I had to drive about 60 miles and I was in a serious hurry.  I needed to bail someone out of jail before they got transferred to another facility and I was running against the clock.  I drove the whole way at 85.  It was noisy but it was just fine.  I drove back going 75 the whole way and it was humming nicely.  Pushing that hard you need to have a good clean air filter and it helps to have the right jets for your climate/elevation.  I wouldn't want to run like that in the stock lean condition.
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Art Webb
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Re: 4th to 5th gear ?
Reply #46 - 12/27/15 at 06:49:25
 
Mine is probably running lean
I notice it does better in cooler temps
That doesn't change the facts, though
It's not designed for frequent Interstate runs, and running like that all the time will wear it out prematurely, in stock condition
There's a reason guys like Dave and MM have altered the gearing and added power to their bikes
and it for sure wears ME out running it that way all the time  Grin
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Kris01
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Re: 4th to 5th gear ?
Reply #47 - 12/27/15 at 20:35:29
 
Art Webb wrote on 12/27/15 at 06:49:25:
Mine is probably running lean
I notice it does better in cooler temps


Then you're probably running a little rich. Cooler air is denser air meaning you can pack more of it in the cylinder. If it runs better when cooler then you're probably adding more fuel to compensate for the "extra" air.
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There's no problem that a full tank of gas and a sunny day can't fix!

2008 S40, Rotella T 15W-40 w/ZDDP added, Dyna, 140/90-15, Battery Tender Jr., Seat lift, #52.5/150/3 washers, Raptor
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chzeckmate
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Re: 4th to 5th gear ?
Reply #48 - 12/28/15 at 01:16:14
 
I tend to agree with that.  Better running in cooler temps generally = rich condition..
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'05 S40, dyna muffler, rejet, high flow filter, Mobil 1 Racing 4T, Shinko 230 set with 140/90 rear, raptor, seat lift, LED running lights/signals, tach, reversed risers, homemade MR10 Lexan windscreen
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Kris01
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Re: 4th to 5th gear ?
Reply #49 - 12/28/15 at 18:55:10
 
Since the weather has turned cold mine tends to pop and gurgle a little bit when shifting or coasting down to a stop. It runs silky smooth in the summer though.
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There's no problem that a full tank of gas and a sunny day can't fix!

2008 S40, Rotella T 15W-40 w/ZDDP added, Dyna, 140/90-15, Battery Tender Jr., Seat lift, #52.5/150/3 washers, Raptor
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chzeckmate
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Re: 4th to 5th gear ?
Reply #50 - 12/28/15 at 23:05:44
 
I get the typical lean surge. It's very irritating.  I've been meaning to rejet for a few weeks now but I've been working night and day and haven't gotten to it.  It's like I always say, you can't make time you have to take time.  I'll get to it soon.
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'05 S40, dyna muffler, rejet, high flow filter, Mobil 1 Racing 4T, Shinko 230 set with 140/90 rear, raptor, seat lift, LED running lights/signals, tach, reversed risers, homemade MR10 Lexan windscreen
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Art Webb
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Re: 4th to 5th gear ?
Reply #51 - 12/29/15 at 09:51:03
 
I seriously doubt a stock S40 is running rich
Maybe it's in my head lol
I know I didn't find it near as objectionable when I had a sheild
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Kris01
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Re: 4th to 5th gear ?
Reply #52 - 12/29/15 at 16:52:51
 
Haha! No, a stock S40 is definitely not running rich!  Grin

Are you positive the jets are stock? Are you the original owner?
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There's no problem that a full tank of gas and a sunny day can't fix!

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Art Webb
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Re: 4th to 5th gear ?
Reply #53 - 12/30/15 at 08:01:50
 
2nd owner, and the I'm pretty sure the jets were stock until Versy twiddled the carb some, but the jets we had there at the dragon were provided by Lancer and they weren't much of a step up, maybe one size
maybe I need to do a roll off test and see
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Kris01
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Re: 4th to 5th gear ?
Reply #54 - 12/30/15 at 13:14:27
 
Check my signature. I didn't change my jets by much but it made a HUGE difference. I'm at sea level (mostly) and it's VERY humid in the summer. More humidity means less room for oxygen which means smaller jets (but more than stock).
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There's no problem that a full tank of gas and a sunny day can't fix!

2008 S40, Rotella T 15W-40 w/ZDDP added, Dyna, 140/90-15, Battery Tender Jr., Seat lift, #52.5/150/3 washers, Raptor
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cheapnewb24
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Re: 4th to 5th gear ?
Reply #55 - 12/30/15 at 13:50:41
 
chzeckmate wrote on 12/23/15 at 23:25:49:
cheapnewb24 wrote on 12/23/15 at 19:08:26:
...Going around curves, you may need to be more careful, and be more cautious when flogging it off the line, but it's not like the thing is going to flip over backwards and do out of control burnouts every time you goose it.  --At least not with the stock engine, clutch, and gearing.
Torque alone is nothing to worry about apart from a jolt of a take off, in my opinion.

...This whole thing reminds me of that comedy where that idiot jumps on a big cruiser and wheelies into a house. Now that torque proved problematic Wink


I don't have 1000 words to spend on this, but here's a video that should help illustrate my point.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8ifLQPtgto



I haven't had such luck with wheelies. Maybe I just don't know how, or my clutch is too soft? Well, at least I'm not flipping over backwards breaking bones Shocked.

FYI, I think I said all that before the spacer mod.  Lips Sealed
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Re: 4th to 5th gear ?
Reply #56 - 12/30/15 at 14:23:35
 
Dave wrote on 12/24/15 at 05:32:55:
With a small, low HP, low torque bike you will stall the engine if you get a bit uncoordinated with the clutch and throttle.....with a torquey bike you will most likely accelerate faster than the first time rider has the skill to control

This video is pretty typical of a rider who has never ridden a bike before and is taking his first ride.  They don't instantly understand how the throttle or clutch of brake works....it is a process that takes a little bit to learn.  Thankfully on this one the rear wheel was in the grass and the bike spun the rear wheel and the bike didn't build up much speed.  If this bike was a Savage and it had all been done on pavement where the bike got a lot of traction......it would have been a bad crash.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbb0jCy3cp0



You are a new rider, and when you get more experience and actually try and teach some first time riders.....you will get an understanding about how easily folks can get hurt on that first attempt. A low torque, low weight, low HP bike is a far safer and better teaching tool.  If the person where to start out on a bike with an automatic clutch that only requires the throttle to be moved to make the bike move.....that is even better.


I took the MSF course, and, for a while I had some possible regrets for not learning this myself. The feeling kinda faded away some as we got into the more advanced stuff. I can't say for sure how I would have done it myself. I probably would have missed some concepts, to some degree; however, I was already familiar with the nature of manual transmissions. I had driven farm tractors, and the car I drove (and still drive) was a MT car. I am somewhat mechanically inclined. I could probably have picked it up in nothing flat.

The boy in the video probably didn't have a clue as to the nature of that stuff, and while it sometimes burns our brains out to accept/comprehend this degree of ignorance, Angry these people just don't have a clue as to the nature of these machines and how to work them. I have to remember the first time I was introduced to a MT car. It was that old VW Rabbit Convertible 5 speed. I remember my Dad having me put it in reverse, and I think I killed the motor with the brake, not understanding how the engine and drivetrain become one. I was, I think 12 or so years old.

People who have no driving experience, much less MT experience, may blindly assume that MT's work like AT's, that gas simply means "go" and brake "stop" or something. Even AT's don't entirely work like that. MT's are perhaps more complicated, but it becomes intuitive, so that anyone that drives stick can more quickly learn to drive a motorcycle (maybe). It's just that the controls are different. The principle is approximately the same. Anyone who drives stick already knows intuitively--instinctively about the friction zone, whether he or she has ever named or tried to conceptualize it. It's just a matter of foot vs hand.

On the other hand, I seem to remember reaching for the clutch or something during the MSF course (foot vs hand conflicts), so driving a car can also get you confused as well. I even thought there was some advantage to it. I don't remember it clearly, so it's hard to say what happened. Even when driving AT, it happens. One time I remember giving Mom a jolt in her AT Outback, reaching for the clutch and, instead, hitting the brake Roll Eyes. Have you ever reached for the gear shift knob only to remember that you're driving automatic? Roll Eyes

When I turn onto the road, I don't like to give a lot of throttle until I straighten, so it's not as simple as, "Give the Savage as much throttle as you want and it will work no matter what." I don't want to end up laying on the ground wondering what happened. Roll Eyes
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Re: 4th to 5th gear ?
Reply #57 - 12/30/15 at 14:43:33
 
Perhaps what he should have done is this: Instead of giving instructions, he should have demonstrated and have him watch carefully the user input compared to the reaction. It is important to understand-- to comprehend-- to wrap one's head around it all, not just follow instructions. While trying to follow instructions eventually leads to the right place, I find that doing so tends to disengage common sense. You are so busy trying to follow someone else's instructions that you can't even use your own brain to figure things out. The results are not always pretty. Has anyone ever noticed this "following instructions disengages common sense" effect?
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Re: 4th to 5th gear ?
Reply #58 - 12/30/15 at 14:55:00
 
Actually, one could think of it this way. If the bike was low geared and torquey, he might not have even had to give it gas in the first place. Just ease on the clutch and putt-putt away. Smiley If the engine was tame like a tractor engine, it would have been even better. How many here have been introduced in their youth to driving tractors? With their low gearing, high torque, and low rate of revving, not to mention set-and-forget hand throttle, they make a great teaching tool. Of course, they are heavy equipment and can be dangerous IF they do get out of control. Just about the first thing MT I drove was an old gas Farmall, but it was awhile before he let me drive the IH diesel. Probably the second thing was the VW I mentioned, if I'm not getting the two mixed up Huh. Time flies and memories fade.
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Re: 4th to 5th gear ?
Reply #59 - 12/30/15 at 15:03:31
 
One of the problems with high torque and moderately low gearing is the tendency for the machine to jolt ahead hard with just a little bit of throttle. This could cause the rider to go into shock and lose control. Like I said, if it had a slow revving engine like a tractor has, things might be a little better. The thing about a little weedeater engine is that you are forced to rev it, which makes things more complicated. When he had to rev it, he revved it too much, spun the tire, ran onto the pavement, and fell over. Having to work the clutch and the gas makes things more complicated. That's what I'm saying. Does anyone agree?


Yeah, I'm kinda arguing with myself, ain't I? Cheesy Huh
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