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Does it really promote violence? (Read 235 times)
pg
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Does it really promote violence?
12/12/15 at 00:50:01
 
I was curious to learn a bit more about the religion of peace.
Is it rhetoric or does it really promote violence?  Perhaps, this will help.  

And slay them wherever you come upon them, and expel them from where they expelled you; persecution is more grievous than slaying. But fight them not by the Holy Mosque until they should fight you there; then, if they fight you, slay them — such is the recompense of unbelievers, but if they give over, surely Allah is All-forgiving, All-compassionate. Fight them, till there is no persecution and the religion is Allah’s; then if they give over, there shall be no enmity save for evildoers. (Quran 2:191-193)

Men are the managers of the affairs of women for that Allah has preferred in bounty one of them over another, and for that they have expended of their property. Righteous women are therefore obedient, guarding the secret for Allah’s guarding. And those you fear may be rebellious admonish; banish them to their couches, and beat them. (Quran 4:34)

They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of Allah; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper. (Quran 4:89)

This is the recompense of those who fight against Allah and His Messenger, and hasten about the earth, to do corruption there: they shall be slaughtered, or crucified, or their hands and feet shall alternately be struck off; or they shall be banished from the land. That is a degradation for them in this world; and in the world to come awaits them a mighty chastisement. (Quran 5:33)

When thy Lord was revealing to the angels, ˜I am with you; so confirm the believers. I shall cast into the unbelievers’ hearts terror; so smite above the necks, and smite every finger of them! (Quran 8:12)

Make ready for them whatever force and strings of horses you can, to strike terror in the enemy of Allah and your enemy, and others besides them that you know not; Allah knows them. And whatsoever you expend in the way of Allah shall be repaid you in full; you will not be wronged. (Quran 8:60)

Then, when the sacred months are drawn away, slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them, and confine them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent, and perform the prayer, and pay the alms, then let them go their way; Allah is All-forgiving, All-compassionate. (Quran 9:5)

Fight those who believe not in Allah and the Last Day and do not forbid what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden — such men as practise not the religion of truth, being of those who have been given the Book — until they pay the tribute out of hand and have been humbled. (Quran 9:29)

Allah has bought from the believers their selves and their possessions against the gift of Paradise; they fight in the way of Allah; they kill, and are killed; that is a promise binding upon Allah in the Torah, and the Gospel, and the Koran; and who fulfils his covenant truer than Allah? So rejoice in the bargain you have made with Him; that is the mighty triumph. (Quran 9:111)

O believers, fight the unbelievers who are near to you; and let them find in you a harshness; and know that Allah is with the godfearing. (Quran 9:123)

When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then, when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds; then set them free, either by grace or ransom, till the war lays down its loads. So it shall be; and if Allah had willed, He would have avenged Himself upon them; but that He may try some of you by means of others. And those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will not send their works astray. (Quran 47:4)

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/12/05/pamela-geller-loretta-lync...

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raydawg
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Re: Does it really promote violence?
Reply #1 - 12/12/15 at 06:23:14
 
Some of the passages are startling if they stand alone, I agree, but so are many in the the Bible, the old testament especially.
Context is everything when reading scripture, and I must believe that holds true to the Quran.

I still think this whole refugee episode in history might prove a boon to religion as a whole.
As I stated, the Muslims are much more overt and praise their faith openly. We have some at work who kneel down and pray, at work.
To my knowledge no one has complained.
We also had a bible study group that was challenged, but the company allowed it as long as it was done "off the clock"  Wink

I don't know how public policy will change, but I am pretty certain it will be challenged in our courts, like the christian cake baker, if considerations are not taken into effect for those of Islamic faith.

We shall see.  
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Re: Does it really promote violence?
Reply #2 - 12/12/15 at 11:43:53
 
Raydawg nailed it ...

"...Context is everything when reading scripture..."

or reading anything for that matter:

Grab an econ book or business ethics or the bio of Warren Buffet and pick a paragraph and then pick a sentence from that = WTF  Wink

"...Context is everything when reading..."
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Re: Does it really promote violence?
Reply #3 - 12/12/15 at 17:49:46
 
raydawg wrote on 12/12/15 at 06:23:14:
Some of the passages are startling if they stand alone, I agree, but so are many in the the Bible, the old testament especially.
Context is everything when reading scripture, and I must believe that holds true to the Quran.


I still think this whole refugee episode in history might prove a boon to religion as a whole.
As I stated, the Muslims are much more overt and praise their faith openly. We have some at work who kneel down and pray, at work.
To my knowledge no one has complained.
We also had a bible study group that was challenged, but the company allowed it as long as it was done "off the clock"  Wink

I don't know how public policy will change, but I am pretty certain it will be challenged in our courts, like the christian cake baker, if considerations are not taken into effect for those of Islamic faith.

We shall see.  


I doubt the Bible is nearly as bad as the Quran for promoting violence, regardless of context... But then, I have never really read the Quran.

The Biblical passages where God directly commands people to outright violence have mostly to do with Israel's conquest and defense of their Promised Land.

On the other hand, I would guess that the Quran is more concerned with conquering the world Shocked. But, who am I to say? Can anyone correct me?

I have heard the idea that once Islam has conquered some place, it is under Islam forever, or something. I think this may explain some of the desire for jihad.

In short, the Bible encourages conquering the world with the Gospel and with love while the Quran promotes conquering the world with the sword Shocked.


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Re: Does it really promote violence?
Reply #4 - 12/12/15 at 17:51:32
 
This kind of relates to this topic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuDZP-v_dXw

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Re: Does it really promote violence?
Reply #5 - 12/14/15 at 11:16:09
 
Can anyone correct me?



I googled him and he is not fraud.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brother_Rachid

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Re: Does it really promote violence?
Reply #6 - 12/14/15 at 11:38:58
 
The question about the Koran in my mind is this:

The Old Testament in the Bible records God demanded his followers kill their enemies in extremely violent ways. Ways that ISIS hasn't thought of.
However, as the Jewish people 'settle in' from a Biblical point of view, the message shifts. The New Testament and the message of Jesus do away with the concept of a Kingdom on Earth and shift to the Kingdom of God,  which is not based on earthly land, material goods etc... The Bible ends with instructions to love your neighbor, those who live by the sword die by the sword, turn the other cheek, when a thief ask you for your coat give him your shirt too.   In other words, the violence of the Old Testament was necessary to establish a nation and now that it's established, peace should reign going forward and the Gospel is to be preached, but violence is not demanded to those who reject. In the place of violence is prayer and love.

Now, I've not studied the Koran. Maybe someone on here has. My question is simply this: Does the Koran indicate modern day Muslims are in the middle of their version of the Bible's Old Testament? Meaning the violence will have a 'closing date'?   Or does the Koran indicate there is no close to violence until all are converted or dead?

Any thoughts on that?
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Re: Does it really promote violence?
Reply #7 - 12/14/15 at 12:17:11
 
"Meaning the violence will have a closing date"...

Mark, does the USA have a closing date in it's foreign affairs?
It seems that the score at the moment (postww2) is 103 'invasions' to 0 'invaded by'.

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Re: Does it really promote violence?
Reply #8 - 12/14/15 at 12:46:41
 
How about you start a different thread on that topic.
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Re: Does it really promote violence?
Reply #9 - 12/14/15 at 14:52:39
 
HovisPresley wrote on 12/14/15 at 12:17:11:
It seems that the score at the moment (postww2) is 103 'invasions' to 0 'invaded by'.


Here is a link with terrorist attacks specifically targeting Christians since 911.

The victims are innocent Christians who were specifically targeted and abused solely on account of their faith by those who claim their own religion as a motive.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/ChristianAttacks.htm

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Re: Does it really promote violence?
Reply #10 - 12/14/15 at 15:47:21
 
The comment was about the concept of Mark's "closing dates", and questions any 'force' such as ISIS (for example) or US military (for example) ever having a closing date  Huh
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Re: Does it really promote violence?
Reply #11 - 12/14/15 at 16:28:40
 
Which is a stretch applying to this thread,.......hijacker!
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What happened?

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Re: Does it really promote violence?
Reply #12 - 12/14/15 at 17:38:22
 
I don't see it as a stretch, at all. There is no hijacking. He makes a good point.
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Re: Does it really promote violence?
Reply #13 - 12/14/15 at 18:53:03
 
No, he's going back to a discussion we had before.

The topic of this thread is: does the Koran promote violence. US military actions going back to WWII doesn't really apply.

My question stands and I'd like those knowledgeable with the Koran to comment: Are today's Muslims in the middle of their version of the Old Testament or is the incitement towards violence in the Koran open ended?
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Re: Does it really promote violence?
Reply #14 - 12/14/15 at 19:03:57
 
Well, I spose it is your thread. And, maybe you are correct.
But, dates got mentioned, and that kinda opened a door.
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