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Rough running at idle...I know...petcock, right? (Read 221 times)
stewmills
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Rough running at idle...I know...petcock, right?
11/20/15 at 09:46:07
 
2008 LS650. 5400 miles. All mods listed in footer/signature.

OK...bike was running ok before but I felt like the stock petcock was causing a sputter now and then so I:

a) got a stock petcock rebuild kit and installed it.
b) cleaned the carb for good measure (it was super clean already) and installed Dave's stainless allen screws.
c) new front brake pads.
d) installed my rear pulley shim.

Now I know "c" and "d" have nothing to do with this, but I am just splanin' it all anyhow.  

Yesterday was the first really good ride I did since the maintenance above and on the 8 mile trip to work it ran top notch. Stopped and fueled up half way and then drove the remaining few miles to work.

On the way home after a few miles in, I felt like the response to my throttle adjustments around 45-55mph were jerky. The closer I got to home I noticed that if I didn't stay in the throttle pretty good at a stop light the engine would cut out. I babied it home and tried to adjust the air/mix with no impact. Switched the petcock to reserve/prime sveral times just to see if maybe the new petcock innards were stiff and needed a little jogging. Prime seemed to make it not choke out as bad, but still not running all that great, especially at idle.

I drained about a cup of fuel from the float bowl drain and it seemed to flow pretty well and clear. Had a few specs of stuff in there but I think it was from me using a cup with some dust in it. Subsequent draining showed a clear, clean cup.

I know I need to pull the fuel line off the carb and test the flow directly and as well do the old petcock test to see if in fact the stock petcock is still failing despite the new innards. I am also going to see if the local small engine shop has a vacuum line to replace the stock one for good measure also.

Anyhow, aside from knowing what I need to look at as noted above, why would the bike run "ok" at speed but really piss out at idle?  If it's not a petcock or fuel flow issue, could it be that some trash snuck past the petcock screen and has jammed up one of the jets?  With my new allen bolts I can and will check and clean the jets again for good measure although they were spotless 20 miles ago when I cleaned the carb.

I know...I know...get the raptor anyway!
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verslagen1
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Re: Rough running at idle...I know...petcock, righ
Reply #1 - 11/20/15 at 10:02:24
 
well, obviously, you've put the brake pads in upside down.   Grin  jk.

check the screws on the back of the petcock, but I don't think it's the issue.
It maybe that you were leaning out before and just had your idle screw adjusted to compensate.  and now things are sealed up a little better it's too rich.
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Serowbot
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Re: Rough running at idle...I know...petcock, righ
Reply #2 - 11/20/15 at 10:12:40
 
stewmills wrote on 11/20/15 at 09:46:07:
I know...I know...get the raptor anyway!

Yaahuh... Huh...
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Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
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Todd James
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Re: Rough running at idle...I know...petcock, righ
Reply #3 - 11/20/15 at 10:30:18
 
Bad Gas ?

You fueled it up on the way to work.

Maybe you got a heavy dose of ethanol or some water in the
gas if the tanker recently dumped a load at the gas station.

Other than that,  or the petcock,  it sounds like a vacuum leak.
Perhaps you have a screw loose (on your carburetor).  Grin
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Dave
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Re: Rough running at idle...I know...petcock, righ
Reply #4 - 11/20/15 at 11:42:40
 
I would do the test where you block off the petcock vacuum line and switch to PRIME....and see if it makes any difference.

If it does.....then the petcock might be working weird as you stated.
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Art Webb
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Re: Rough running at idle...I know...petcock, righ
Reply #5 - 11/20/15 at 11:47:09
 
How to repair Savage petcock
1 Buy Rator petcock
2 remove stock petcock
3 install raptor petcock
4 stomp stock petcock flat (wear boots, preferably heavy engineer's boots)
5 throw stock petcock as far as you can away from your bike
6 shoot stock petcock, preferably with a slug out of a 12 gauge
7 burn what's left of stock petcock

Sorry, just had to  Grin
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stewmills
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Re: Rough running at idle...I know...petcock, righ
Reply #6 - 11/20/15 at 12:13:01
 
Dave: Yes, will do that test.

Todd James: Yes, I thought about that too but the gas came out of the float pretty clean.  However, I think I may drain it so I can check the petcock innards and go get some fresh gas. One of the pumps was bagged so I wonder if it was because the tank was getting low and that particular pump "died" first, hence pulling crap from the bottom?  

Versy: But they were Hello Kitty brake pads from Japan and I put them on with her standing right side up...those Japanese must have printer her picture on there upside down.

Serow and Art Webb:

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Dave
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Re: Rough running at idle...I know...petcock, righ
Reply #7 - 11/20/15 at 12:18:20
 
For a lot of folks the stock vacuum petcock works just fine....and for a long while.  The big problem with them is that when they act up - the symptoms are easy to mistake for some other cause like ignition or carb, and sometimes they can fill up the airbox or crankcase with gasoline.  Sometimes folks spend a lot of time trying to correct the problem by looking in the wrong area.  Failure can also be speeded up by the E10 and reformulated fuels that exist in some parts of the country.

I suppose it isn't all that big of a deal....as long as you carry a small rubber plug and a golf tee - so you can disable the vacuum line and set the petcock to PRIME when you are out riding and the petcock decides to fail.  That way you can get back home and do a proper repair when needed (install Yamaha Raptor)..



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verslagen1
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Re: Rough running at idle...I know...petcock, righ
Reply #8 - 11/20/15 at 13:10:18
 
Stewie! you dog you... got a little pu$$y on your bike... awesome.   Grin
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Re: Rough running at idle...I know...petcock, righ
Reply #9 - 11/20/15 at 13:21:45
 
Dave,
My son has one of those. Sweet dog, his name is  Tachi. Smiley
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Dave
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Re: Rough running at idle...I know...petcock, righ
Reply #10 - 11/20/15 at 18:55:37
 
norm92de wrote on 11/20/15 at 13:21:45:
Dave,
My son has one of those. Sweet dog, his name is  Tachi. Smiley


In the photo......looks more like a dog that needs an attitude adjustment!
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Re: Rough running at idle...I know...petcock, righ
Reply #11 - 11/22/15 at 08:46:40
 
I thought my tech advise was spot on
Dave said it well, when the stock petcock fails, as it will, the symptons can send you on wild goose chases
non vac ptties don't do that  Tongue
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stewmills
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Re: Rough running at idle...I know...petcock, righ
Reply #12 - 11/27/15 at 10:14:29
 
ok gang. to diagnose things one at a time i first replaced the vacuum line today. took it a minute to warm up and after a few minutes it seems to be running good now. i am probably over anxious since it was acting up befire, but when i rack the throttle open pretty good in neutral and let go it drops back a bit below idle speed then immediately catches up to a good steady idle. prob did this before and is to be expectd on a manual carb. before it would drop off and shut down, so I guess it was a leaky 7 year old vacuum line.  we'll see what the next few rides do but hopefully that was it.

 
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Dave
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Re: Rough running at idle...I know...petcock, righ
Reply #13 - 11/27/15 at 11:16:50
 
stewmills wrote on 11/27/15 at 10:14:29:
When I i rack the throttle open pretty good in neutral and let go it drops back a bit below idle speed then immediately catches up to a good steady idle.


The engine will never be able to respond well to this kind of activity....and you shouldn't expect it to.  When you open up the throttle and get the engine rpm up, and then instantly close the throttle you are creating a situation that makes the fuel mixture very lean.  The fast spinning engine and closed throttle creates a very high vacuum - but the slide has dropped down and closed off the needle jet and main jet...so the only fuel that is getting to the engine is from the pilot jet circuit.  The fuel mixture is so lean that the spark plug cannot ignite the mixture, and as the engine coasts down to lower rpm the engine technically is not running.  Once the engine speed drops down low enough that the engine vacuum is normal, the fuel/air mixture finally gets back to normal and the spark plug can once again ignite the mixture in the cylinder and the engine starts to run again.

Revving the engine up and closing the throttle quickly while the engine is in neutral is really not something that you should do.....the engine doesn't like it.  Even when riding you should get in the habit of rolling the throttle on/off in a smooth manner.....cracking the throttle open or shut quickly just isn't a style that the Savage responds well to.
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stewmills
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Re: Rough running at idle...I know...petcock, righ
Reply #14 - 11/27/15 at 12:46:18
 
thanks dave. i do typically treat her well and am easy on the throttle action. i was just being nore aggressive than usual trying to see if i could get it to choke out like it was before. sounds like im back to normal...well, the bike anyway... Grin
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2008 | 152/52.5–Air Mix 3/4 | Rotella T4 | Seat Lift w/Sheepskin | Speedo Rattle | Rear Pulley Shim | 140/90-15 Rear | Kaw Front Pulley | Relocated Rear Signals

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