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What is faith.....?? (Read 209 times)
raydawg
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Re: What is faith.....??
Reply #15 - 11/02/15 at 05:46:26
 
I will try....  Grin

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results...
Trying to drive a person out of his right to participate in the political arena based on his beliefs will lead only to confrontation, as in doing such you are removing the very consideration of ones own beliefs at the cost of another's, that will never work without enforcing a person against their will.

The whole argument of separations is convoluted in both sides.
It states no laws should be made to inhibit free expression, yet they try under separation....
You can't seize rate my beliefs from me, even tho they try.
It is like trying to say you don't have to be gay....
Unless one walks in that persons life, all they utter is folly.

However, organized religion has crossed that line as well, the pledge being one example and the reference to god on the currency is another.
I would even say a tax code that allows for tithing to be a write off is against the spirit of why we tithe in the first place.

If you want to say no organized folk can lobby on behalf of their beliefs then you will run smack up against their right to free assimilation.

And yes, bot appears to me to want it only his way....

This mindset is the root cause for all the misery in this world, and it is exampled by many people of opposing beliefs.
The only resolution to such is war, or something similar, to overpower the opposition.

Hope that helped  Smiley
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HovisPresley
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Re: What is faith.....??
Reply #16 - 11/02/15 at 06:09:10
 
It helped  Smiley

But who is:
"Trying to drive a person out of his right to participate in the political arena based on his beliefs...." ?


Keeping religion out of politics is not the same as keeping religious people out of politics, (or even wanting to, not that Bot said that, of course).

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WebsterMark
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Re: What is faith.....??
Reply #17 - 11/02/15 at 06:38:28
 
People are politics. All people in office bring their life experiences with them, so it's impossible to think a religious person wouldn't bring their belief system into any debate anymore than it is to think a non-religious person wouldn't bring that point of view also.

I'm not suggesting we do away either point of view, I'm suggesting we stop being militant to one point of view. Granted, I concede in the past 2 centuries, for the most part, it's correct to say the USA was a Christian nation and we rejected many suggestions from non-Christian sources. We are still a long way from having a leading Presidential candidate stand up and say I'm an atheist. Agnostic, sure, that will likely come first, but atheist? I think that's a way off.

I would also say we stop revising history into a disaster caused by Christianity. Fact is, the world is a far, far better place with Christian values running the USA (granted, many times far in the background, but nonetheless, present) than the world would be without it's influence.
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HovisPresley
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Re: What is faith.....??
Reply #18 - 11/02/15 at 06:54:28
 
WebsterMark wrote on 11/02/15 at 06:38:28:
Fact is, the world is a far, far better place with Christian values running the USA (granted, many times far in the background, but nonetheless, present) than the world would be without it's influence.

..............................................................

I'd suggest that is an opinion, not fact.

Never the less, Christian values such as "thou shalt not kill" are ignored when "Christian values (are) running the USA", as you put it.

Why?
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Re: What is faith.....??
Reply #19 - 11/02/15 at 06:59:33
 
Hovis wrote:

Quote:
Never the less, Christian values such as "thou shalt not kill" are ignored when "Christian values (are) running the USA", as you put it.

Why?


Simply because, like it or not, there are sometimes folks that need to be killed.
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Re: What is faith.....??
Reply #20 - 11/02/15 at 07:22:59
 
Agnostic, is just a wishywashy way to say atheist...
Since atheism requires no faith,... it is, of course, open to new evidence or ideas...
I call myself an atheist, because when I called myself an agnostic, religious people would try to convert me.  Atheism, conveys a more confident view.

Raydawg distorts my contention.  
Separation of church from state, is not the removal of Christians from government.
The church is your house,.. I will not invade it, and spout sacrilege in it...
The congress is all our house,... leave your preaching at the door.

The argument that a fetus is a human life is a legitimate perspective... The argument that God says it is murder, is not...
"Marriage" is not a holy union,.. when the government bestows legal rights and license upon it.  
Churches should be allowed to refuse to marry those that it disagrees with,.. but not the US government.
A baker operates his his business under a government license, and agrees to meet certain operational standards.  He must treat all customers equally, and deliver service without prejudice.
Refusal of service to individuals is permitted, but not based on prejudice...

As an atheist,.. a Christian counter person at the auto shop is required to sell me spark plugs.
If I am rude and belligerent, and appear to be drunk, he is not.

It is about being allowed to hold your own beliefs, without having the beliefs of others imposed on you.
In order for your beliefs to be protected,... you must respect the beliefs of others.
Defense of women, gays, atheists, Muslims, etc... protects your own rights.

Prejudice against others, weakens your own protections...
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HovisPresley
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Re: What is faith.....??
Reply #21 - 11/02/15 at 07:39:29
 
oldNslow wrote on 11/02/15 at 06:59:33:
Hovis wrote:

Quote:
Never the less, Christian values such as "thou shalt not kill" are ignored when "Christian values (are) running the USA", as you put it.

Why?


Simply because, like it or not, there are sometimes folks that need to be killed.

.............................................................................

My interpretation of Jesus' teachings (and also the 10 commandments) says otherwise.
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Re: What is faith.....??
Reply #22 - 11/02/15 at 07:43:59
 
bot wrote:

Quote:
Agnostic, is just a wishywashy way to say atheist..


No, it's not. It's simply an acknowledgement that one is not sure whether God exists or doesn't exist , and is not presumptuous enough to be convinced that ones views on the subject are without a doubt correct.

I was raised in a Christian family but now consider myself agnostic. I am willing to admit that there are things I simply do not understand. If you are so positive of your beliefs that you don't need to entertain any doubt, good for you. I'm not.
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Re: What is faith.....??
Reply #23 - 11/02/15 at 08:24:10
 
Dang bot, you are ripe in your own assessments, having to resort to interpretation as fact, what, just to bolster your beliefs?
Agnostic is not an atheist, even if you want to include them in your believe, to what, increase your representation?
You even go into chastise them, why?

Earlier I said faith and belief were one of the same, yet you said you have none, only confidence. I suggest you look the word up, as confidence is having faith, or belief, in the topic at hand....

You can change things to meet your desired results, they will be only yours.....it will never bridge the ignorance of understanding.
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Re: What is faith.....??
Reply #24 - 11/02/15 at 09:20:49
 
Can you believe in God and eternal life,... a little bit?... Undecided...

I can't... even if I could, I wouldn't...
Out of respect to the imaginary being above... Grin...


Confidence ... generally described as a state of being certain either that a hypothesis or prediction is correct or that a chosen course of action is the best or most effective.


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HovisPresley
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Re: What is faith.....??
Reply #25 - 11/02/15 at 09:21:12
 
Faith?

"We all have faith, if not, you would not be able to rise in the morning from slumber."
I awake and rise because of a need to eat/drink/use-toilet/answer the door/phone. There is no faith involved.

"You awaken because you have faith that in living you will fulfill your need of that day."
I awaken because of the internal chemical reactions or outside disturbance.

"We exhibit faith when we believe a certain candidate or party will provide the best possible solutions to our concerns."
We generally are cynical (read 'disbelief') when it comes to candidates/parties providing best possible solutions to our concerns.

"We exhibit faith at the beginning of a new sporting season that our team will be the victor."
Not really, we'd all like our team to win, but realistically we believe (and might bet) that they will finish in, more or less, the same position as the previous season, give or take a few places. (Unless you support Chelsea FC!)

"We exhibit faith when we turn the key on our savage and hit the start button  Grin "
I expect it to start, because I appreciate the scientific design and logic that were used to create this machine. I don't exhibit anything except joyous anticipation of a great road  Cheesy (okay, sometimes I exhibit frustration at my battery's lack of charge)  Embarrassed

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'96 Bobbobbobber
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Re: What is faith.....??
Reply #26 - 11/02/15 at 09:30:36
 
Faith... is belief without evidence...
Confidence... is belief based on evidence...

Isn't that actually a tenet of religion?... To believe without proof?...
If there were proof,.. faith wouldn't be required...


JMHO... Cool...
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Re: What is faith.....??
Reply #27 - 11/02/15 at 10:11:06
 
last time politics and religion mixed "witches" were burnt at the stake
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oldNslow
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Re: What is faith.....??
Reply #28 - 11/02/15 at 10:28:08
 
thumperclone wrote on 11/02/15 at 10:11:06:
last time politics and religion mixed "witches" were burnt at the stake


I don't think there's been a "last time" yet. I'd be willing to bet that a proponent of "the religion of peace" is chopping some poor basta*d's head off while I'm typing this.
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Re: What is faith.....??
Reply #29 - 11/02/15 at 10:34:47
 
Likely so.... Grin...

Excuse the laughing,... it's the phrasing that got me...
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