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Dyna Muffler, Carb issues (Read 316 times)
jwenrich
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Dyna Muffler, Carb issues
08/02/15 at 10:22:20
 
I recently put on a dyna muffler from american custom. Love it. It ran great for about a week, and then started getting lurchy at the low end.

Shouldn't a carb issue present right away?

Anyway, took it in to a shop (Shoulda done it myself), and the first time he completely threw off the carb. Barely made it home. He ended up putting in a new needle, with a more tapered point. I took it back, he replaced with stock jets, but left the new needle.

At idle, there is a tinging which seems to come from the cylinder (Lean?)

I have ordered a larger #55 pilot, but am wondering about the more tapered needle. Have not been able to find much regarding what affects this might have.

Any thoughts on a more tapered needle? (Stock is flatter)

Thanks guys
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2012 Savage: dyna American custom, Raptor petcock, Elev: 200ft 55, 147.5, 2/3 Spacer
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verslagen1
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Re: Dyna Muffler, Carb issues
Reply #1 - 08/02/15 at 11:10:02
 
Normally, we just replace the jets and if it surges in the mid range we do a white spacer mod.  all of which is detailed in the tech section.

what he's done will richen the low end but might be lean on the top end.
and when you put a fatter pilot jet it will be too rich on the low end.

can't say what he did is entirely wrong, w/out a air/fuel meter no one knows.
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jwenrich
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Re: Dyna Muffler, Carb issues
Reply #2 - 08/02/15 at 11:14:50
 
So would the tinging sound at idle be the result of too rich?

The last 7/8th throttle did seem to flatten out, ie no change in response to the throttle at that point. I did sand down the point of the new needle, but the idle sounded so loping and tingy that I didn't take it out after.
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Re: Dyna Muffler, Carb issues
Reply #3 - 08/02/15 at 11:35:54
 
An American Custom muffler is not a Harley muffler so we don't really know what you have...
Could be similar to a stock Harley or nearly completely open...

Now someone else has fooled with your jetting,.. so we don't that either...

... but,.. if the bad running didn't change 'till later,... it's something else...
So, what changed?...

Have you checked yer' petcock?... Undecided...
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Dyna Muffler, Carb issues
Reply #4 - 08/02/15 at 11:47:45
 
I've been here ten years. We have some guys here who I consider gurus when it comes to the carb. I've never seen one suggest that. Another thing I've seen during that time is them,guiding people through the carb , slowly, inexpensively , and successfully. Reports of
I took it to the pros and it runs great
are few, not sure I recall any.
We've seen multiple engines DESTROYED by the Pro at the dealership
just doing an oil change.
Your knowledge and experience, no matter how limited, with a manual , proper tools and willingness to be patient, careful and thorough, won't keep you from succeeding.
I've seen a couple give up, pay for help and get it back running ,but not optimally. I wonder if they just don't know, or care, or are hurrying, because they get paid X dollars for the job, if it takes ten minutes or ten hours. And I suspect they resent owners who have tried...
First step is of course, knowing that the tank is clean and gas is fresh.
Then knowing fuel delivery is right.
Then knowing the jets are the right size and clear.
Then the carb internal passageways are clear.
From there, the white washer mod, adjusting idle air, sometimes the
TEV, BUT that'll above my pay grade.
When you win this you'll have learned stuff you're gonna be glad you know.
Eventually, the valves will need adjusted, cam tensioner dealt with and you'll be more confident.
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jwenrich
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Re: Dyna Muffler, Carb issues
Reply #5 - 08/02/15 at 12:10:20
 
First off thank you for the quick replies.

I have a 2012, so everything is clean. New raptor petcock installed a while ago.

And I know I shouldn't have taken it to someone else. I knew what needed done, was just feeling lazy i guess (live and learn)

American custom takes the Dyna and tweaks it, I do have a baffle in it, it may need a bit better seal at the end.

My main concern is a tinging at idle that seems to be coming from the cylinder. Is this lean, or rich?
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Re: Dyna Muffler, Carb issues
Reply #6 - 08/02/15 at 12:18:19
 
If everything except the muffler is stock....a #55 pilot is most likely really rich.  Most stock engines with the stock air cleaner run fine with a #50 pilot, and going to a #52.5 is mostly done when a Pod filter is installed.

Has the "no tamper" plug been taken out so you can adjust your idle fuel mixture?

Changing the needle is normally not done....we just take out the white spacer and put in 3 washer instead (#4 machine screw washers).  If you have a mid throttle surge....then take out 1 washer so that you only have 2 washers.

The main jet sort of depends on the altitude where you ride - but a #150 is a good place to start if you are around sea level up to a couple thousand feet.
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Re: Dyna Muffler, Carb issues
Reply #7 - 08/02/15 at 12:21:28
 
All jets are stock, pilot at 52.5, main at 145.

The plug has been removed. When idling, I can richen it, and the tinging reduces a bit, but the idle speed gets much lower.

Only surge I get is minimal just below maintaining speed, at just a hint of throttle when slowing or going downhill.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Dyna Muffler, Carb issues
Reply #8 - 08/02/15 at 12:43:32
 
Maintaining a minimum of a thousand RPM is crucial to keeping oil to the cam. It rides in the head. No shell bearings, no bushings. A failure means a new head and head cover, as they are line bored together. The only time to drop it a little is while adjusting the idle air mixture, so you can find the sweet spot. I went for a ride and tweaked at red lights. Less time at low RPM. And it was always at operating temps.
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jwenrich
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Re: Dyna Muffler, Carb issues
Reply #9 - 08/02/15 at 12:47:03
 
I make sure to keep it up, but I have to turn the idle speed knob so much farther than before, and it puts a lot of play (just over quarter inch of turn) into the throttle.

Upping the idle doesn't diminish the tinging anyway, and my oil levels are fine.
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Re: Dyna Muffler, Carb issues
Reply #10 - 08/02/15 at 12:56:39
 
Not to be a snoot, but at this point, can you really say that you know the idle circuit is clear of obstruction? You shouldn't hafta crank the idle up like that. From where I'm sitting, all that anyone knows is a
Pro
worked on it and it's anything but right.
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jwenrich
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Re: Dyna Muffler, Carb issues
Reply #11 - 08/02/15 at 13:01:45
 
...no i cant be sure. The guy forgot to put the bolts back in my seat too (only the allen bolt at the back holding it on) so I guess anything is possible.

I was hoping to avoid taking the carb off the bike, but I suppose I should just redo everything and start over.

Thats 100 bucks I could have kept.

As I move forward, What are some possible causes of a tinging in the cylinder? My guess is its lean, but I really dont know for sure. What should I look for?
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Re: Dyna Muffler, Carb issues
Reply #12 - 08/02/15 at 15:40:58
 
At this point I would start completely over. I'm at just a hair over sea level and I'm running the stock pilot. It runs just fine. 52.5 may be a little lean for you with that muffler. What's your altitude?

Put the stock needle back in and, as Dave suggested, shim it with 3 #4 washers. That's a good starting point. You shouldn't have any surging at cruising RPMs.

The stock 145 main might be lean for you as well (depending on your altitude). Check my signature. Mine runs great!

Don't forget to reset your idle mixture with the screw. Turn your idle down a bit so when you make a change to your mixture it becomes more apparent how the engine likes it. Turn your air/fuel screw for the highest, smoothest idle. Once you get that tuned, crank your idle speed back up to ~1100.  Wink
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jwenrich
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Re: Dyna Muffler, Carb issues
Reply #13 - 08/02/15 at 16:24:58
 
So my understanding is the spacer allows the needle to 'rest' a little higher off the main jet. By reducing the spacer, it actually raises the tip of the needle.

This is what mine was set to... Stock is top, the 'pros' is on the bottom...

Looks to me like it might be just a tad on the rich side.  Sad
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jwenrich
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Re: Dyna Muffler, Carb issues
Reply #14 - 08/02/15 at 19:37:59
 
Ok so I used his needs again,  but brought it up to the second to top notch,  lowering the needle right? Put it all back together... Backfire popping on every thump and black smoke... Shouldnt lowering the needle have made it leaner?
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