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Rounded Oil Drain Plug (Read 458 times)
tom3949
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Re: Rounded Oil Drain Plug
Reply #15 - 07/04/15 at 04:03:21
 
Just a quick update on my attempts with the oil drain plug. I acquired some long nose vice grips and filed a couple of flat spots onto the bolt. I attached the grips and tightened them up using another pair of pliers - but the end result has been the same - no movement of the bolt! Arghhhh!   Sad

I think the next stage will be to try and get hold of a set of Irwin bolt removers and try them.

It looks like the guy who built this bobber has spent all the time and money on buying and putting together the RYCA kit, but hasn't done anything with the engine. The oil obviously hasn't been changed and the reason I wanted to do the oil change in the first place is that the engine doesn't sound as if it's running right. Sounds noisy at the top of the head, (cams?), and 'strained' when riding, (some odd vibrational noises when accelerating or decelerating in certain gears). Just thought that putting the 'right' oil in might be a first step in alleviating this.

I think I might need a bit of professional help with this one - as my mechanical skills aren't exactly up there!
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chzeckmate
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Re: Rounded Oil Drain Plug
Reply #16 - 07/04/15 at 10:58:18
 
What happened when you hit the vice grips with the mallet?  Did the mallet just bounce off and the bolt didn't move or did the vice grips come loose and off the bolt head?  Did you do it with the engine hot or cold?
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tom3949
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Re: Rounded Oil Drain Plug
Reply #17 - 07/05/15 at 09:59:00
 
chzeckmate wrote on 07/04/15 at 10:58:18:
What happened when you hit the vice grips with the mallet?  Did the mallet just bounce off and the bolt didn't move or did the vice grips come loose and off the bolt head?  Did you do it with the engine hot or cold?


Maybe I didn't get the grips on tight enough or didn't dremmel the bolt flat enough - but the grips just moved around the bolt! The engine had been warmed up prior to me draining the fuel and getting the bike on its side for easier access. I think I am going to get someone a little more experienced in mechanics to have a look at for me. The wife suggested the bolt could have a reverse thread, (this is an LS400 not an LS650), and if she's right ....   Embarrassed
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Re: Rounded Oil Drain Plug
Reply #18 - 07/05/15 at 10:13:22
 
tom3949 wrote on 07/05/15 at 09:59:00:
The wife suggested the bolt could have a reverse thread, (this is an LS400 not an LS650), and if she's right ....   Embarrassed

good suggestion, but no, they are right handed.

Why don't you just keep grinding the flats til you can use a big adjustable metric wrench? (pictured below)
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Rounded Oil Drain Plug
Reply #19 - 07/05/15 at 10:49:39
 
I've been known to twist both ways on a stuck bolt.
If there is room for a full sized pair of vise grips, get some with flat gripping surfaces, not curved. At this point, a small pipe wrench and cheater pipe may be in order.
Id probably be sure that the flat spot is big enough. I know you are tired of messing with it and just wanna win and be done, but now isn't the time to get impatient.  

You may need to get a small pipe wrench and cut and grind on it until it will fit into the space.
I sure would look at a picture...
And you are moving the bottom of the plug toward the rear of the bike..
Pretty sure we covered that, but,, ,  we've never seen one do this.

50/50 acetone and transmission fluid, penetrating oil. Probably not gonna get past the crush washer, if there is one. Maybe that's why it's so tight.

I've heated and bent wrenches, cut them in half, shortened allen wrenches,
Whatever it took to win.

If you ever get in a spot and the wrench is just a bit lose, watch close. If corners are moving, stop, shim it up, crush the wrench in a vise, or measure the head, know that you're using the right tool. But, everyone who has worked on stuff has done this. I work with a guy who will still do it. It's like, Well, I had the right wrench. It was supposed to work.
As if that somehow changes the damage and the problem. After five years of me helping him fix stuff, he is starting to listen.
You might try heating and quick cooling. A heat gun, even a blow dryer, heat the plug and all around it. Then stick an ice cube just on the plug.
Tools at the ready.
 

Needle nose grips tend to twist before they get tight out on the end. You need to be clamping down right down by the handle, not out on the needle nose part.

Pair of honkin serious vise grips, plug shaped to give them something to grab And if they are too thick to get in there, grind them down.
Keep a can of water to dunk in, don't get them too hot.
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Re: Rounded Oil Drain Plug
Reply #20 - 07/05/15 at 10:53:25
 
verslagen1 wrote on 07/05/15 at 10:13:22:
tom3949 wrote on 07/05/15 at 09:59:00:
The wife suggested the bolt could have a reverse thread, (this is an LS400 not an LS650), and if she's right ....   Embarrassed

good suggestion, but no, they are right handed.

Why don't you just keep grinding the flats til you can use a big adjustable metric wrench? (pictured below)


If that doesn't work then you could just use a torch to heat it. Aluminum and steel expand and contract at different rates. Applying a torch should get it free with very little hassle.
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tom3949
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Re: Rounded Oil Drain Plug
Reply #21 - 07/05/15 at 10:54:31
 
Cheers guys,

Next chance I will get to have another go at this will be the weekend. I'm not going to let it beat me - but it's sooooo frustrating! Should have been such a simple little job!   Wink
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Re: Rounded Oil Drain Plug
Reply #22 - 07/06/15 at 05:04:30
 
The proper way to afix vice grips is to tighten the adjusting screw to the point where you can not close the grip handle, and then back off the screw just enough to close the handle. They should be impossible to open without the use of the opening lever. Also, many knock-off versions of vice grips simply don't work. Good vice grips have very aggressive teeth so they don't slip.
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Re: Rounded Oil Drain Plug
Reply #23 - 07/06/15 at 09:53:26
 
What Gary says.....

My nephew couldn't get some small screws out and stripped the JIS socket (looks like Phillips head).  I grabbed some small knock-off vice grips he had, and when I tightened them down on the screw head the teeth on the vice grips flattened and they popped off the screw head.

The next day I brought my "Genuine Vice Grips" and they grabbed onto the screw and they came right out.

You should also not use the needle nose variety unless that is the only kind you can fit on the bolt head.  The shorter the jaws and the closer you have the bolt to the pivot point on the jaws....the tighter the grip on the bolt will be.
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tom3949
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Re: Rounded Oil Drain Plug
Reply #24 - 07/06/15 at 10:59:10
 
Gary / Dave,

Thanks for the advice. I acquired a pair of long nose vice grips because of the limited space around the oil plug. Paying £5, (that's about $7.50), for a set off ebay may be the problem.
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Re: Rounded Oil Drain Plug
Reply #25 - 07/06/15 at 11:13:57
 
Can you ride the bike over to someone that can weld a new nut on the stub?

They can fuse a nut that is biq enough that they can weld on the inside.....and leave the hex available for your wrench.
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Re: Rounded Oil Drain Plug
Reply #26 - 07/06/15 at 11:40:49
 
I'm not seeing success with needle nose. If it rounded off with a wrench, the surface area of the needle nose contact, out on the skinny end, ain't gonna get it. Re read my post above. Tools aren't sacred. Some jobs require cutting, bending,welding, even making a tool.
The wrench was moving, you thought you were winning, but, moments later you discovered that the head had lost its corners.
Try to remember how the wrench fit, how far would it move, before it contacted the head. A twelve point wrench only shoves on the edge of the corner. This moment, uncool and unfunny, can help you avoid stuff like this in years to come.
Looking back, knowing now that a wrench moving doesn't mean the bolt is, and usually, when a drain plug breaks loose, it goes from wrench to finger tight almost immediately, the threads aren't exposed to the elements, and they typically aren't installed and left I in place for years...
So, what would you do differently?
I've messed up Phillips head screws, taken a pin punch, driven the metal back in place, hammered a tip in and tried again.
The location that you're in limits access,, I really wish we had pics.
I might have another idea, but seeing would help.

Do you have a vise, grinder, other than Dremel, no knocking them, I have two.
What kinda fabricating tools do you have?
Is the plug damaged all the way from the top to bottom of the head evenly or is it tapered?

I don't rember how tall the head is on one of these.

I have some ideas, like shaping the head up,, putting a few notches in it, drilling a nut out, notching it, poking HARD wire, hobby shop, piano/ control rod, wire. In the slots,JB IT together, of course NOT allowing the JB to get in places that screw it up....
You may wind up with the motor on the bench.
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tom3949
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Re: Rounded Oil Drain Plug
Reply #27 - 07/06/15 at 12:07:57
 
Dave / Justin,

Thanks for all the advice. I am taking it over to a friend of a friend to have a look at - but it will probably be the week after next, (due to work limitations etc). I don't have any fabricating / welding gear but he is a bike mechanic and sounded optimistic in getting this sorted. There has been so much brilliant advice given here I can't thank you all too much. I will keep you posted on how I get on and will get some pics up once I find the charger for my camera, (I'm not a mobile phone person!).

Justin, I know what you are saying about the wrench moving. I suppose the initial problem was that the drain plug is difficult to access and at first I couldn't really see what I was doing as I didn't have the bike on it's side. It was only after I realised that I wasn't winning that I hunted down additional tips on this site - hence my makeshift bike support. And the nut isn't tapered, (yet!). Just nicely rounded all sides - apart from where I have attempted to dremmel some flat surfaces. I do have an angle grinder somewhere - but I don't think I will be able to gain access with this given the limited space between the plug and frame.

Once again thanks everyone for the assistance.
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Re: Rounded Oil Drain Plug
Reply #28 - 07/06/15 at 20:19:10
 
I'm glad you're getting help.
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tom3949
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Re: Rounded Oil Drain Plug
Reply #29 - 07/12/15 at 09:08:04
 
Gentlemen - thank you ever so much for all your help. At last - SUCCESS!!

The oil plug is finally out!

Grin

Here is what I have learned from this experience:

1) Listen to the members on this site!
2) If you can, (after draining the fuel tank), get the bike on it's side - it makes access to the oil plug so much easier, (I used a fishing seat, old army kit bag and a couple of old sun lounger covers as a makeshift support).
3) If vise grips are needed - buy the real deal. Only after I had forked out on a pair of Irwin vise grips did I manage to get the oil plug off. The cheap ones just rounded the oil plug more.
4) If your oil plug is as stubborn as mine get some heat on it, (a butane torch meant for cooking worked wonders for me!).
5) If necessary apply a little brute force.  I hit the bolt from the side a couple of times with a cold chisel, then heated it up with the butane torch before getting a proper grip using some 'decent' vise grips. All this did the trick!

Once again thanks everyone for all the help and advice.  Smiley
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