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Rich pilot lean main...is it possible? (Read 104 times)
Rylee
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Rich pilot lean main...is it possible?
05/18/15 at 23:44:00
 
Finally got the new exhaust finished up and new I was gonna have to tune for better flow. Few test rides have produced huge amounts of decel pop and poor idle conditions causing me to have to hold the throttle at times to keep it running.

Current jet setup is a 152.5/55/1 washer/2.5 turns on the screw.

I just read through Serowbots carb tuning for like the 376 time and the brass screw test now shows little change which according to his tutorial says rich pilot. The rolling test gives me a bump in power when I let off the throttle which says lean main. Is that possible to have both to much and not enough at the same time.

Took me forever to get it remotely close to correct the last time I was in there and though it wasn't perfect I was able to do away with the steady throttle surge and all but the shut down belch when it came to popping. I have lancers jet kit with a new gasket so I'm gonna crack it open tomorrow and have a go at it.

Currently the bike has a K&N cone, 34" of pipe with a torque cone and crumb cup and before mentioned jet setup.

I'm going to check the exhaust for leaks first because when I was putting it back on after the wrap I did yank on it a few times to line up the mount bracket I welded on that got bent a little while wrapping the exhaust. It's possible I broke 1 of the many welds in one of the bends.
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Re: Rich pilot lean main...is it possible?
Reply #1 - 05/19/15 at 05:12:26
 
I am not sure how the cone filter affects things - but your jetting is way wacky compared to what I know works with a stock filter.  The single washer on the needle will make the midrange very rich.  The 55 pilot jet is also very rich.

If you warm up the bike well, drop the idle speed down a bit lower then is recommended (like 800/900 rpm), and then turn in the mixture screw...what happens?  If you can turn the screw all the way in and the engine is still running...the pilot jet is to rich.  You should be able to turn the screw in/out for the smoothest idle....and that should occur with the mixture screw 1.5 - 2.0 turns out from lightly seated.  Fewer turns for the ideal setting indicates the jet is too big....more turns indicates the pilot jet is too small.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm5mB3R8Ucw

Once you have selected the pilot jet, then do full throttle runs to determine the main jet size.  Finally the needle can be set by adding or subtracting washers to get a smooth transition from idle to partial throttle acceleration.

Notice......adjusting your carb for proper fuel mixture doesn't involve listening for pops and backfires caused by an improper muffler.  What the bike does when you close the throttle is not a good indicator of proper jetting...and trying to jet to eliminate backfiring will most likely result in too rich of a mixture setting at idle.

Folks responding to this thread need to be aware of the exhaust system you are running.
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Flint
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Re: Rich pilot lean main...is it possible?
Reply #2 - 05/19/15 at 05:41:18
 
How is your float level?  Low float level will make it run lean.
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Gary_in_NJ
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Re: Rich pilot lean main...is it possible?
Reply #3 - 05/19/15 at 05:49:20
 
Rylee wrote on 05/18/15 at 23:44:00:
Current jet setup is a 152.5/55/1 washer/2.5 turns on the screw.


What size washer?

A 55 pilot does sound rich. Especially with 2-1/2 turns.
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« Last Edit: 05/19/15 at 19:24:36 by Gary_in_NJ »  

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Re: Rich pilot lean main...is it possible?
Reply #4 - 05/19/15 at 18:52:46
 
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think it's a #4 washer.
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Gary_in_NJ
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Re: Rich pilot lean main...is it possible?
Reply #5 - 05/19/15 at 19:24:13
 
If an owner replace the OEM nylon washer, the correct replacement size is a #4. It would take 3 of them to equal the OEM height. The fewer washers, the richer. So if the OP is running one #4 washer, then not only is his pilot circuit rich, so is his jet circuit.
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Rylee
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Re: Rich pilot lean main...is it possible?
Reply #6 - 05/20/15 at 13:58:39
 
The current jet/washer setup was optimal for the previous exhaust I had. Now with a more free flowing exhaust I expected to have to retune the carb. I have noticed there's more heat from the engine as my black exhaust wrap has literally burned the color out and is turning grayish white. Also on a pretty long group ride last night I had to adjust the idle up to 1200-1400 RPMs just to keep it running at idle. I don't mind the pops and after fire under decel and the light belch at shutoff is fine as well. I just need it to idle without the help of the choke or cranking up the RPMs.


Previous exhaust setup
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Rylee
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Re: Rich pilot lean main...is it possible?
Reply #7 - 05/20/15 at 15:44:49
 
@Gary
It's the washer that came in Lancers kit. Before with the old exhaust I had a terrible surging issue and dropping to 1 washer allowed me to get about 2 turns on the idle mix screw and that alleviated the surging. The current condition is not surging it just doesn't wanna run at idle. It takes forever to come off the choke and even when the choke finally disengages it idled very poorly causing me to have to adjust the knurled screw in the carb and bump up the idle well into 12-1500 RPMs.

One thing I have noticed is pulling the choke 1 click out seems to do little to nothing to the idle once the bike is warm which would indicate a rich setup if I've read correctly.

I'm merely trying to adjust jets for idle. I don't have any surging and only seem to get a little acceleration during speed tests. My 1st concern is the pilot/needle spacing as both seem to be rich and causing the bike to run terrible at idle and low speeds.
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Re: Rich pilot lean main...is it possible?
Reply #8 - 05/20/15 at 17:29:14
 
Just went down to a 52.5 pilot and she barely wants to run. I let it idle to get to temp and hit the throttle slightly and it blew the carb off. Felt like I had the bolt tightened down enough not sure what that means. But it will harley run at idle now. So back up to 55 pilot and maybe add a washer?
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Gary_in_NJ
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Re: Rich pilot lean main...is it possible?
Reply #9 - 05/20/15 at 21:54:28
 
If you are just working on idle and partial throttle, leave the needle alone for now. Work one circuit at at time. Go back to the 55 pilot and adjust the mixture screw until you get good roll on throttle response. Once your happy with the throttle response you should adjst the idle speed to 1,100-1,300 prom
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Re: Rich pilot lean main...is it possible?
Reply #10 - 05/21/15 at 13:48:27
 
Let me start by saying I was wrong about previous setup. I had 2 washer on the needle not 1.

So appearently I was rich everywhere and just thought it was right. After playing with jets and opening it up about 5 different times I found what seems to be a good setting.
Current setup is 52.5/150/1 washer and about 3/4 turns CCW on the idle screw. Idle setting is a clean 1000 RPMs and she purrs!
Pilot to main opening is pretty smooth. I dont feel a huge jump in response but I can feel the main coming on. Decel pop is down to a very minimal gurgle and just a slight after fire poof during shutoff.

The idle screw adjustment stumped me for a bit. I had it set at 2 turns and wasn't noticing a difference until I started turning it CW and decreasing the mixture. It was at that point I realized I was out too far. Got to about 1.75 turns before it stopped increasing RPMs and backed it down an. 1/8th turn until it was right. Settled on 3/4 of a turn from closed and it seems to be at the perfect spot. Haven't hit the freeway yet to feel more open throttle but around the streets wrapping the throttle gives a quick and steady response.

Thanks everyone for your input once again the knowledge of this forum saves the day.
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