SuzukiSavage.com - Previous owners i tell ya

Neilap Full Member Offline I cant hear you over the awesome. Posts: 183 Morgantown, W.V. Gender:	Previous owners i tell ya 05/13/15 at 07:39:31 I was left a lawn
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Art Webb Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 3007 columbus, Texas Gender:	Re: Previous owners i tell ya Reply #1 - 05/13/15 at 07:42:58 aw shoot man, that filter's good for at least another 20000 miles
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Neilap

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Re: Previous owners i tell ya
Reply #2 - 05/13/15 at 07:56:24

Art Webb wrote on 05/13/15 at 07:42:58:

aw shoot man, that filter's good for at least another 20000 miles Grin

Ikr? I plucked all the grass out of it and I seem to have much better throttle response. I want to look into doing an exposed filter but im not sure if I want to stick with the carb on it or go to something with more response

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Art Webb Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 3007 columbus, Texas Gender:	Re: Previous owners i tell ya Reply #3 - 05/13/15 at 08:05:54 If you ditch the airbox I'd consider the non CV carb one of our members (Lancer maybe?) sells, CV carbs don't like open filters all that much, though they can be made to play sorts nice with them
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Neilap Full Member Offline I cant hear you over the awesome. Posts: 183 Morgantown, W.V. Gender:	Re: Previous owners i tell ya Reply #4 - 05/13/15 at 08:28:56 constant velocity?
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Dave

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Re: Previous owners i tell ya
Reply #5 - 05/13/15 at 08:47:23

Neilap wrote on 05/13/15 at 08:28:56:

constant velocity?

Yes. If you crack open the throttle too fast and the vacuum in the venturi drops......the slide in the carb lowers and keeps the vacuum where it should be....then raises as the engine vacuum builds. The air flow is kept at a "Constant Velocity" beneath the slide.

If the vacuum were allowed to drop drastically.....there would not be sufficient vacuum to pull the fuel out of the float bowl and the engine "coughs" until you let up on the throttle a bit. Some carbs have accelerator pumps to solve this problem, other carbs use the vacuum operated slide (motorcycles and some cars like MG, Jaguar, Triumph, etc. used CV carbs).

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Neilap

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Re: Previous owners i tell ya
Reply #6 - 05/13/15 at 08:51:56

Dave wrote on 05/13/15 at 08:47:23:

Neilap wrote on 05/13/15 at 08:28:56:

constant velocity?

Yes. If you crack open the throttle too fast and the vacuum in the venturi drops......the slide in the carb lowers and keeps the vacuum where it should be....then raises as the engine vacuum builds. The air flow is kept at a "Constant Velocity" beneath the slide.

If the vacuum were allowed to drop drastically.....there would not be sufficient vacuum to pull the fuel out of the float bowl and the engine "coughs" until you let up on the throttle a bit. Some carbs have accelerator pumps to solve this problem, other carbs use the vacuum operated slide (motorcycles and some cars like MG, Jaguar, Triumph, etc. used CV carbs).

Awesome, im not as ignorant as I thought. what happens if you use a conventional style carb with a butterfly in example with no vacuum?

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Art Webb

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Re: Previous owners i tell ya
Reply #7 - 05/13/15 at 08:58:24

And it's a delicate balance between vacuum, back pressure, and turbulence
This is why so many people install freer flowing exhaust, etc, and are then frustrated by crappy performance and poor throttle response
You CAN rejet and get it pretty good, or put a VM carb on and have an easier time of it
If you plan on going beast mode with it, the VM is probably the way to go
for milder engines the factory carb can still work well
this is why bikes are a bit trickier than old muscle cars to hop up

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Re: Previous owners i tell ya
Reply #8 - 05/13/15 at 09:07:08

[quote author=6B404C494455250 link=1431527971/0#6 date=1431532316][quote author=172C2136272B30362D252837440 link=1431527971/0#5 date=1431532043]Neilap wrote on 05/13/15 at 08:28:56:

Awesome, im not as ignorant as I thought. what happens if you use a conventional style carb with a butterfly in example with no vacuum?

Old cars and motorcycle used to have butterfly carbs without anything to help keep the mixture or velocity constant. You learned to roll the throttle on gently......if you opened the throttle to quickly....the engine would gasp for fuel and could just stop running. Generally there was a cough backwards through the carb as the lean mixture would ignite too quickly and burn backwards through the intake manifold.

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Neilap Full Member Offline I cant hear you over the awesome. Posts: 183 Morgantown, W.V. Gender:	Re: Previous owners i tell ya Reply #9 - 05/13/15 at 09:07:24 I can see that now. No wonder bike mechanics here charge 75 an hour. id imagine if it were more than 1 cylinder a non CV carb would work better
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Neilap

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Re: Previous owners i tell ya
Reply #10 - 05/13/15 at 09:10:03

Old cars and motorcycle used to have butterfly carbs without anything to help keep the mixture or velocity constant. You learned to roll the throttle on gently......if you opened the throttle to quickly....the engine would gasp for fuel and could just stop running. Generally there was a cough backwards through the carb as the lean mixture would ignite too quickly and burn backwards through the intake manifold.

[/quote]

I had a '86 monte carlo SS that was like that. running 3/4th cams. true duals with a 650cfm holley double pumper street avenger series carb. just laying on it would kill it for a good second to two then kick in. the sound of air being sucked in COMPLETLY muted out the true dual glasspack pipes lmao

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Art Webb

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Re: Previous owners i tell ya
Reply #11 - 05/13/15 at 09:55:50

actually the cars in the old days had an accelerator pump to bridge the gap, and if all was adjusted right they wouldn't stumble like that, not sure about the bikes, as I never worked on a pre cv bike carb

Your Monte needed a different accelerator pump diaphragm spring, ot the accelerator pump rod wasn't adjusted right
Automotive carbs are a lot more complex than current moto carbs

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Neilap

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Re: Previous owners i tell ya
Reply #12 - 05/13/15 at 10:05:20

Your Monte needed a different accelerator pump diaphragm spring, ot the accelerator pump rod wasn't adjusted right
Automotive carbs are a lot more complex than current moto carbs
[/quote]

it was set really rich. it was good if you didnt just stomp on the gas. even if it was still quick with a small amount of time before full throttle it wouldnt stumble. im not too worried about it now. I totaled that car from falling asleep on the interstate.

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justin_o_guy2

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Re: Previous owners i tell ya
Reply #13 - 05/13/15 at 10:25:41

Those filter should not cost that much.
Old Feller took one, gutted it and built an effective filter for a little money and some time. If you did that to two filter you could always ride.
I bought the KN drop in. Didn't fit right, air bypassed, I had to use epoxy to
solve that. I kept a OEM filter to use while the KN dried.
That was money poorly spent. Would not do it again. Paper filters blow out, drop in, ride.

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Rylee

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Re: Previous owners i tell ya
Reply #14 - 05/13/15 at 11:48:18

Ahh previous owners... My bikes PO had the clutch cable routed so screwy that it slipped in almost every gear, wired up the tail light witha turn signal wire connected to the brake light (and had no idea why it didn't work) had the biggest jets the kit came with installed but tuned as lean as it could go and disconnected the start switch for a push button but left the mechanism on the bars for some odd reason. The oil in the bike was basically paste which was actually a blessing in disguise because when I pulled the clutch case to clean out the sludge I found the tensioner near falling apart.

Bike had no rear brakes and I figured they were just worn beyond use only to find that there were actually no brake shoes in the drum when I opened it up. That was the best surprise I don't even know how he did that. I've heard of running no front brake but literally removing the brake shoes and leaving an empty drum astonished me. Every time I open something up on the bike I find more "half ass" short cuts and get arounds.

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