I question the need for the whole thing. I feel that the organizer has some sort of personal agenda that smacks of "the politics of fear", where You create a fear of something (group, religion, or politic) and then promise the fearful that you will protect them. (Remember the McCarthy era?)
What angers me the most about this "incident" is that with armed security and a SWAT team the event has the slight odor of a "sting" operation. The attack appears almost ad hoc. If the attack had been better planned and organized one or more attackers could have gotten inside resulting in numerous casualties.  I seriously doubt that the organizer would have regretted such "collateral damage"...  

Mpes: Is there not any application nor defense for "good common sense" any more ?    


What’s happened Mpes, is demonstrated by the comments from old.indian above. (McCarthy? Really?)

I suspect old.indian would have a vastly different point of view if Christians decided to start shooting up San Francisco’s Folsom Street Fair with their decidedly anti-Christian floats and acts. Would you call the parade a “sting”? Are the organizers and participants purposely targeting Christians just praying (sorry for that…) for ‘collateral damage’? Would you demand the parade organizers stop in the name of intolerance?

Pam Geller has been making this point for years which is that Muslims use violence and intimidation to enforce their religious views on every nation they immigrate into. Once the % of the population begins to reach a certain point, the identity of that nation changes. If you doubt that, read up on Europe’s troubles. I'll give you a few neighborhoods in Paris I want you to walk into wearing your favorite Budweiser T-shirt or showing a Cross necklace.

So pat yourself on the back while you can old.indian for taking a courageous stand against intolerance and telling Pam Geller her skirt was too short! She got what she deserved, right?

My, My.. Am I tolerant ? I was taught to judge a person by who they are, NOT what they are, so perhaps I am guilty of such. I will admit to having a total lack of tolerance or respect for either bullies, or fear mongers.  
I would point out that most religions have a history of forcing their beliefs and culture upon others. Including the Christian religion as well as it's different sects upon one another.    
As far as "Christians" shooting up San Francisco's Folsom Street Fair ??? Maybe in Texas, or Mississippi, But San Francisco ?? (About as likely as a Klan rally in Watts.)  
To put it bluntly, at this point I am less concerned with any personal danger of my life or liberty from Muslim terrorist than I am from those groups who would "protect" me from said "terrorist".
  Sorry, but I have no desire to see Paris. My Great uncles were UN-impressed when they were there in 1918 and my Dad and Uncles had a similar reaction in 1944-45....
(P.S. Who the hell is "Pam Geller" ??? )

There is a HUGE difference between the vast majority of Muslims and extremist fundamentalist  fanatics that are muslim. A HUGE difference.

There is a HUGE difference between Christians and Christian fundamentalist/extremists.

It is a HUGE mistake to ignore this.

No, it is a HUGE mistake to ignore the vast difference in the number of violent Muslim extremist vs the violent Christian extremist. (or any other religion for that matter)


Also, as a British "W.A.S.P." with a wealth of experience living in places/countries where Christians/jews/muslims/hindus/sikhs all get on with their daily lives as normal, integrated and happy as a community, I feel that the hysteria over Islamic belief and influence is ridiculous and basically ignorant.

Ridiculous and ignorant huh?....Tell that to the Boston bombing victims, the 9/11 victims, the Ft.Hood shooting victims, the MD sniper victims. Lets see…, how about we go across the Pond. Tell that to the London tube victims, the Charlie Hebdo victims, the Sydney victims, the shopping mall victimsin Nairobi, the victims of the college attack in Nigeria, the victims in the hotel in Mumbai,……

Honestly, I could go on and on and on and on and on and on.... but I wouldn’t want to sound basically ignorant or be accused of fanning the flames of hysteria or anything like that…

Really, how do you breath with your head that far down in the sand?

Here's another way to look at the "Islam is really violent" question.

Add up all those involved in the "atrocities-in-the-name-of-Allah" that were mentioned in the post by WM. Add loads more for all the other atrocities. We can only ever guess, but think of a number.

Then divide it by 2.08 BILLION*, and that gives you an idea of the percentage of Muslims that are violent.

Now count the innocent victims of 'Biker-violence', those caught in the cross-fire, or have been 'stomped' by 'back-patch clubs, been run over by a speeding/drunk bike-rider, etc.
Divide that by how many people regularly ride or own motorbikes.

As a percentage, I would suggest that this would infer that bikers are a greater threat to us all than Muslims are.

I hope this makes sense (even if I have a mouthful of sand)

Hovis  

*Taken from the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, 2014.


 

Islam is no more violent as a religion than Christianity is, in my opinion. But us Westerners are taught differently, and largely believe what they are taught, rather than experiencing it for themselves. That is a HUGE mistake.

Your opinion is demonstratively wrong and not just a little wrong either.  saying 2 + 3 = 4 doesn't make it so no matter how strongly you believe the falsehood.





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My opinion isn't "wrong" because some people might disagree with it  

A "fact" can be wrong (if it is empirically proved to be) but an "opinion" is just that. An opinion.

An opinion can 'carry weight' however, if it is based on a wide and varied unbiased experience on the subject.

If my opinion is "demonstratively wrong and not just a little wrong", to quote you, Mark, then with respect, please tell us why that is so..... ie. some "demonstrative proof"(as you say) of the falsehood of my strongly-held belief.
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Can anyone explain to me how most of the population of America was slaughtered/enslaved/starved by God-fearing Christians because that population were thought to be "savages"? (pun almost intended)
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On a different note, I used the analogy of drunk-drivers for two reasons.
Firstly, alcohol impairs normal brain function, and leads to irrational behaviour.
Secondly, a vehicle in the wrong hands is a potential deadly weapon, whether the rider uses it intentionally or not.
Put the two together and we have someone 'off their head' with a weapon who is likely to kill both themselves and others around them.
Wait a minute.....that sounds a lot like one of those Islamic suicide bombers.

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Quote: "The point Hovis is that whatever that percentage is, it's multiple times larger than the next closest one."

So.....
If muslims pose a terrorist threat, and with 2.08 BILLION people being Muslim, and there are 7 billion people on the planet, then OMG!!! (or OMA!!! should I say).
Sleep safely tonight with the thought that:
Statistically if 7 people are in a room, then two of them will cut the heads-off/blow-up the other five people in the name of Allah.

OR they won't .... it might be that you are slightly off the mark when it comes to stereo-typing other people whose religion you don't understand.

You decide  

In addition, "your (sic) working really hard" doesn't emphasize the pleasure (and perhaps, duty) I feel in presenting an alternative view on the 'muslims-are-terrorists' subject.

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As to the cartoons of the prophet Mohammed, which this thread started out with, I like the Charles Manson one best    

Edit: sorry Art, you posted whilst I was still writing this

Interesting ... An Englishman, a German, and a Shawnee (Native American) making the point that just because a person is of a different religion does not make either them nor that religion inherently evil.
When I speak of the "politics of fear" and what can happen, I note 1942 and the "relocation" of Japanese-Americans on the West Coast to "camps" inland. Or you can read the history of the "relocation" of different Native American tribes to various reservations.      
The "politics of fear" as fed by fear mongers and false information has lead to many evils, the KKK and "Jim Crow Laws", Wounded Knee, and Sand Creek, WW2 "Relocation Camps" to "WMD" and Iraq...
 My greatest fear is that this present situation of anti-Muslim feeling will result in a pogrom of Muslims in some parts of this country. And that is the ultimate evil to the America I was brought up in.
C.Potter
USMC (MOS=0311)
1961-1967