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Don't like this at all (Read 240 times)
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Don't like this at all
04/21/15 at 10:28:52
 
I just saw these two articles in the Yahoo news today.

Automakers to gearheads: Stop repairing cars  
Car Companies Say Home Repairs Are 'Legally Problematic,' Seek Copyright Restrictions

Automakers are supporting provisions in copyright law that could prohibit home mechanics and car enthusiasts from repairing and modifying their own vehicles.

In comments filed with a federal agency that will determine whether tinkering with a car constitutes a copyright violation, OEMs and their main lobbying organization say cars have become too complex and dangerous for consumers and third parties to handle.

Allowing them to continue to fix their cars has become "legally problematic," according to a written statement from the Auto Alliance, the main lobbying arm of automakers.

We Can’t Let John Deere Destroy the Very Idea of Ownership

IT’S OFFICIAL: JOHN Deere and General Motors want to eviscerate the notion of ownership. Sure, we pay for their vehicles. But we don’t own them. Not according to their corporate lawyers, anyway.

In a particularly spectacular display of corporate delusion, John Deere—the world’s largest agricultural machinery maker —told the Copyright Office that farmers don’t own their tractors. Because computer code snakes through the DNA of modern tractors, farmers receive “an implied license for the life of the vehicle to operate the vehicle.”

It’s John Deere’s tractor, folks. You’re just driving it.

Several manufacturers recently submitted similar comments to the Copyright Office under an inquiryinto the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. DMCA is a vast 1998 copyright law that (among other things) governs the blurry line between software and hardware. The Copyright Office, after reading the comments and holding a hearing, will decide in July which high-tech devices we can modify, hack, and repair—and decide whether John Deere’s twisted vision of ownership will become a reality.
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Pine
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Re: Don't like this at all
Reply #1 - 04/21/15 at 10:42:42
 
! agreed!

I am sure that we... we being anyone that likes to tinker/modify their vehicle.. are in the minority at this point. But you can safely assume i will not be buying any vehicle that I do not 100% own and can modify to my hearts content. Of course I am old and have no problem cobling some 1950's thing on wheels to get me where I need to go.

Ford was mentioned right up there with GM.. if they press I will never buy another.. oh wait .. I have not owned either since 2008.

This is just another example corps flexing thier muscle with government to screw John Q public.  Actually ... its not not even new!!! You may recall back in the 60's and early 70's that dealers could install 'dealer options" like intake manifolds.. exhausts.. basically very real changes to the car. US auto makers put an end to that. Though .. to be honest ... some dealers had it coming. The problem was that dealers would modify the car... and then hold the auto maker up for warranty work when the hot rod later burned something up.

I see this going back and forth. Enthusiasts will just rip out all the electronics.. so the auto makers will get government to make that illegal. Hell it might already be!

Why do I see iRobot in this.
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Re: Don't like this at all
Reply #2 - 04/21/15 at 10:43:10
 
Well......could be that I never own another new car.

I better take care of the ones I currently "OWN".  And if they want to argue that point.....who is going to repay the Ad Volurem Taxes I have paid the state of KY each year?
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Re: Don't like this at all
Reply #3 - 04/21/15 at 11:36:32
 
"ALL YOUR AUTOMOBILES ARE NOW BELONG TO US"


Big corporations hand in hand with big overreaching governments = Fascism

Benito would be so proud !
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Re: Don't like this at all
Reply #4 - 04/23/15 at 19:09:10
 
Once I "purchase" a car... it is mine to do with as I will.....

If they pass a law like this... all car guys will start building their own and the companies will go out of business.

That is why it will never pass.... I can't believe the story is true anyway... car companies know we mod our cars.... they even provide different versions so we can "upgrade" it ourselves using their parts.
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Re: Don't like this at all
Reply #5 - 04/24/15 at 13:38:06
 
old_rider wrote on 04/23/15 at 19:09:10:
Once I "purchase" a car... it is mine to do with as I will.....

If they pass a law like this... all car guys will start building their own and the companies will go out of business.

That is why it will never pass.... I can't believe the story is true anyway... car companies know we mod our cars.... they even provide different versions so we can "upgrade" it ourselves using their parts.


Of course they will let you mod your own car and supply you with the parts to do so.. again.. as long as you pay THEM for their parts... follow the money..

I predict the law will pass... policitians are dumb as dirt
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Re: Don't like this at all
Reply #6 - 04/24/15 at 14:03:42
 
given the state of current copyright laws, or at least it's enforcement  (btw, I'm no expert)

you may copy someones design as long as it's for personal use.
being that it would be to costly to go after each and every owner for a change and essentially minimal value.
the only thing they could do would be to refuse to support it.
that would shoot themselves in the foot as all the consumers would now going to independents for service.

So, GM would do as Ferrari does and void the warranty if a non-factory certified tech touches the car... for any reason.
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Re: Don't like this at all
Reply #7 - 04/25/15 at 08:55:35
 
After 30,000 miles, (more for some cars now) YOU are the warranty, anyway
However the idea that doing a brake job should void the warranty on the engine, or even the emissions system, is flat silly, and the supreme court has already ruled on that, in favor of the owner
we can do our own basic repairs, and the burden of proof that the work we did caused a problem in a warranted system is on the manufacturer
Obviously if you deleted your catalyst, you voided the warranty on the emissions system (or at least that part of it)
but replacing the muffler does not
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Re: Don't like this at all
Reply #8 - 04/25/15 at 16:30:07
 
The newest story I have read about this pertains to the ECU's .... they don't want folks rewriting the factory software to enhance performance.
They will still let you work on your stuff...starter change , radiator change ect..... but you won't be able to "tune" your car or trucks brain.
Also with the newer cars and the computers they use for gps, music, video's ect.... some people are "hacking" the software and downloading stuff for free.... and that is what the new law/bill is trying to prevent.
Just like Microsoft, you might "own" your laptop.... but you are just "borrowing" the use of the software on it.
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Re: Don't like this at all
Reply #9 - 04/28/15 at 09:12:30
 
old_rider wrote on 04/25/15 at 16:30:07:
The newest story I have read about this pertains to the ECU's .... they don't want folks rewriting the factory software to enhance performance.
They will still let you work on your stuff...starter change , radiator change ect..... but you won't be able to "tune" your car or trucks brain.
Also with the newer cars and the computers they use for gps, music, video's ect.... some people are "hacking" the software and downloading stuff for free.... and that is what the new law/bill is trying to prevent.
Just like Microsoft, you might "own" your laptop.... but you are just "borrowing" the use of the software on it.


The difference is.. I can buy a laptop and use another OS... I cant buy a Vette.. and put another ecu in it.  
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Re: Don't like this at all
Reply #10 - 04/28/15 at 19:43:25
 
Pine wrote on 04/28/15 at 09:12:30:
The difference is.. I can buy a laptop and use another OS... I cant buy a Vette.. and put another ecu in it.  


You can't buy a laptop and re-write Windows to suit your needs - at least Microsoft doesn't want you to.  I think that's closer to what the car companies are aiming for.

I don't like it either, but with the number of things controlled by the central computer, I imagine this will pick up quite a bit of support.  I think preventing at home mechanics from tampering with the software will happen in conjunction with safety features for wireless car-hacking.  If you haven't seen that yet, it's definitely worth reading.  Shocked
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Re: Don't like this at all
Reply #11 - 04/28/15 at 20:09:32
 
Pine wrote on 04/28/15 at 09:12:30:
old_rider wrote on 04/25/15 at 16:30:07:
The newest story I have read about this pertains to the ECU's .... they don't want folks rewriting the factory software to enhance performance.
They will still let you work on your stuff...starter change , radiator change ect..... but you won't be able to "tune" your car or trucks brain.
Also with the newer cars and the computers they use for gps, music, video's ect.... some people are "hacking" the software and downloading stuff for free.... and that is what the new law/bill is trying to prevent.
Just like Microsoft, you might "own" your laptop.... but you are just "borrowing" the use of the software on it.


The difference is.. I can buy a laptop and use another OS... I cant buy a Vette.. and put another ecu in it.  


actually there are stand alone ECUs  Cheesy

personally I'm not happy with the amount of stuff that is computer controlled in modern cars that doesn't need to be
Cruise control? had it before computers
automatic headlights? M/Cs have 'always on' headlights without computers, they work great
now traction control and stability control you need computers for, EFI you need computers for, transmissions you really don't, but that's another argument
and we wonder whay an 'economy car' costs 20K+
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Re: Don't like this at all
Reply #12 - 04/28/15 at 20:25:50
 
when they finally start selling the automatic (you don't drive it) car, they will need to make it impossible and really illegal to hack into the brain, or some geek will reprogram his ex girlfriends' car. Shocked Shocked
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Re: Don't like this at all
Reply #13 - 04/28/15 at 20:29:27
 
or a cyber terrorist will reprogram a whole stonking BUNCH of cars  Shocked
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Re: Don't like this at all
Reply #14 - 04/30/15 at 20:05:45
 
Well, you could ask for the option of "manual windows and door locks" and then order a crate motor and tranny to match, then rip out your ecu, cpu and any other "pu" and wiring harnesses.

Rewire the brakes and blinkers and there you have it.... no computers.

AND you would not be breaking their "don't mess with our software rule", cause you won't be using it. Grin
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