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2014 with idling problems (Read 181 times)
reynaldo
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Re: 2014 with idling problems
Reply #15 - 04/16/15 at 09:52:01
 
Thanks for all the info guys. Appreciated.

Kris01:

It was the right bolt & my drain pan got filled with about 1,5l
of old oil. About the brass plug on the idle mix screw, it's still there.

I performed the draining with the bike sitting on the stand though,
maybe I should have tried to lean it in the other direction at some
point.

Dave:

Will try with fresh fuel. Wouldn't have imagined fresh fuel
to make a lot of difference after two months so thanks for the
hint. About the old plug, yeah, I took it out after changing oil/filter
and noticing the bike stalling under the described conditions. This
was also after the 2 months of storage, before that I think I drove
the bike for about 1k km. The deposits in the sparkplug itself though
look quite stiff and solid, like if they were old enough to think the rich
condition has been there for a while. But my ignorance should be
factored on all these conclusions Smiley

Few questions for everyone:

Whats TEV and E10?

What kind of external tachometer would I need to adjust the idle
speed if I wanted to be 100% accurate? Are there any other
formulas to perform this without a proper tool in addition to the
10mph idle speed at first gear that serowbot mentioned?

Still thinking about the old filter, has anyone experienced similar
problems with a bad filter? What are the symptoms you'd expect
to see/ear if the filter was the one at fault? Is there any way to test
the filter for correct operation?

Is there any easy way to perform a light cleanup work on the carb
without disassembling it fully?

Thanks again for all your help guys.
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Dave
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Re: 2014 with idling problems
Reply #16 - 04/16/15 at 10:15:59
 
The TEV is the Transient Enrichment Valve.  It is located on the right side at the front of the carb....and I believe there are three screws holding the diaphragm in place.  When you shut the throttle and decelerate, the fuel jets are closed and the engine goes lean.  The TEV is supposed to open in these conditions and provide some extra fuel so the engine doesn't backfire or stall.

E10 is gasoline with 10% ethanol added - and it is what comes out of most fuel pumps in the US.  There is also E15 and E85 that should never be run in the Savage or anything but a "FLEX FUEL" car.  The ethanol requires a richer air/fuel ratio than gasoline, and he E10 runs just a bit lean in an engine made to run on gasoline.  I believe he TEV valve may be similar...and just can't flow enough fuel to work as it should.

I did a long test on fuel, and the Premium Pump Gas started to fail in just 50 days.

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greenmonster
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Re: 2014 with idling problems
Reply #17 - 04/16/15 at 10:16:50
 
Can you do me a favour and turn your petcock to Prime and try again with it no longer running with the vacuum?
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: 2014 with idling problems
Reply #18 - 04/16/15 at 11:47:10
 
Prime flows , full flow, no vac needed.
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reynaldo
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Re: 2014 with idling problems
Reply #19 - 04/16/15 at 12:24:00
 
Thanks again for the info guys.

Dave: I'm using 95 octane gas, I have no information on the amount
of ethanol that is present on the Chilean mix but will try to figure out.

Surprise surprise. I took the bike out for a short ride around town. It
performed quite normally, no stalls and predictable acceleration as
far as I can tell (Not a lot of experience with the bike nor bikes in
general). After the ride I went for lunch and after finishing I tried
the prime test suggested by greenmonster - the bike didn't stall.

Additionally, I tried doing the same with the petcock in its normal
"on" position and it didn't stall neither.

So, I'm quite puzzled, I guess it deals with the motor being warmed
up already but I keep thinking that it shouldn't stall no matter what
(cold or warm), and this is what I remember from before the bike
was stored, It never stalled.

Anyway, I recorded a short video here so you can take a look and
help me figure out if the small "about to stall" moment shows signs
of the idle speed being too low (video recorded with petcock in the
"on" position, I also performed the test on prime with no noticeable
differences):

https://youtu.be/CpJ7DIA-5AE

I'm happy though. At least I'm almost sure now that if the bike
is warm it wont stall Smiley

Now on the possible too rich condition, I took a picture of the
first section of the exhaust as it's quite blueish - brown. Considering
this bike has 2700 Km on it (almost new), do you think this decoloration
is normal? might it support the idea of the motor running too rich?

Thanks again for all your help guys! You rock!
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20150416_154147_small.jpg
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Re: 2014 with idling problems
Reply #20 - 04/16/15 at 12:41:53
 
So you are located in Chili?.....you may not have any ethanol in your fuel.  Update your personal profile to include where you live and we can hopefully provide information that is more suitable for where you live.

Well....I watched the video, and that looks pretty normal to me.

There really isn't any reason to do that with the throttle....open and close the throttle at a slower rate and your bike will thank you for it.

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reynaldo
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Re: 2014 with idling problems
Reply #21 - 04/16/15 at 15:09:45
 
Hi Dave. Thanks for taking a look at the video

So I will proceed at riding the bike with new fuel and see how it
behaves. Regarding the possible too rich condition, would you consider
the blue/brownish tint/decoloration on the exhaust pipe (picture
attached in the previous post) as an indicator that might confirm
this? As I said before the bike has barely 2.7Km on it (around 1.7K
with the previous owner).

I haven't abused the bike and I have drove it pretty much always
around 60-70mph max. While I'm new to bikes I have been driving
a stick for more than 2 decades so I would like to think I have
a proper sense for gear/rev/speed shifting. I usually stop every
2 hours or so on long drives too.

If the pipe is getting too hot I don't think I'm the one at fault. But
then I'm not sure whether that decoloration after a few thousand
km is to be expected. Can you guys confirm?

Thanks a lot
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Re: 2014 with idling problems
Reply #22 - 04/16/15 at 15:54:07
 
If it is getting too hot, it is more likely to be too lean. Factory settings are actually too lean on this bike. It's how they get through EPA restrictions.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: 2014 with idling problems
Reply #23 - 04/16/15 at 16:23:03
 
Revving it up sitting still will blue the pipe.
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reynaldo
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Re: 2014 with idling problems
Reply #24 - 04/17/15 at 08:16:58
 
Hi guys, thanks for your comments:

Grennmonster: I see. Considering the previous sparkplug came
out quite charcoal-ish I will recheck the sparkplug after a few hundred
kms and make a decision on this. I might end up adjusting the idle
mix screw then.

Do you guys think this is a sane approach ^ ?

Justin: Yeah, I'd guess but honestly, I havent been cranking the revs
on idle that long. Was pretty much a few test I did when I got the bike
and now after the storage when I noticed this apparent fault (bike is
pretty much new).

So, to adjust or not to adjust the idle mix screw right now, that's
pretty much the last question Smiley

Thanks a lot guys!
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Re: 2014 with idling problems
Reply #25 - 04/17/15 at 09:42:45
 
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reynaldo
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Re: 2014 with idling problems
Reply #26 - 04/17/15 at 09:45:48
 
Dave: Thanks for the link but, shall I adjust to a leaner
mix considering the old sparkplug appearance or a richer
one considering the exhaust pipe bluening?

Thanks a lot!
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Re: 2014 with idling problems
Reply #27 - 04/17/15 at 10:26:41
 
reynaldo wrote on 04/17/15 at 09:45:48:
Dave: Thanks for the link but, shall I adjust to a leaner
mix considering the old sparkplug appearance or a richer
one considering the exhaust pipe bluening?

Thanks a lot!


Ignore your spark plug color.....the idle mixture has almost nothing to do with the color of the spark plug.  The rpm at idle won't ever keep a spark plug hot enough to read a proper color.

Idle mixtures are set by "ear"....not by "eye".
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Gary_in_NJ
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Re: 2014 with idling problems
Reply #28 - 04/17/15 at 11:05:05
 
A low compression, air-cooled engine like the one in a LS650 is almost always going to have an ugly plug. Our engines use fuel for cooling the valves and piston dome. By design the mixture has to be on the rich side.

The only way to get a valuable plug read is to perform a series of "plug runs" or "plug chops" with a new plug. It's a time consuming process and is generally used to extract the last bit of horsepower from the engine. As Dave said, your ears and your ass (my add) will get you 90% towards a well jetted engine.
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reynaldo
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Re: 2014 with idling problems
Reply #29 - 04/17/15 at 13:35:12
 
Thanks again for all the info guys. I will adjust the idle speed knob and let you know how it goes.

Cheers,
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