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Wacky Bearing question (Read 327 times)
swing69
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Wacky Bearing question
04/07/15 at 12:55:29
 
I removed the the wheel bearings from the front and rear wheels.

They are Nachi 6302, 6303  both are supposed to be double sealed by part number.   Both had the inner rubber seals removed!  Why?  low mileage bike, I'm sure no one has been inside before.  

Anyone else find this?  the sprocket bearing (larger one) is an open bearing, requiring a good lipped seal.   my seal is beat, so I'm going to a fully seal one (6305).

Mike
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« Last Edit: 04/30/15 at 13:15:56 by swing69 »  
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Re: Wacky Bearing question
Reply #1 - 04/07/15 at 13:05:34
 
All the rear wheel hubs I have taken apart only have seals on the outside.

The pulley hub bearing is not sealed on either side as I recall, and it has a separate rubber seal in the outside.  This bearing wears out waaay too soon and allows the pulley to wobble.  I suggest you install the rubber floor mat shims when you put it back together....so the bearing stays new longer.  The rubber is the black floor mat that you can get at Lowe's or Home Depot in the carpet department.  Once you cut them to size I use a small dab of RTV in the center to hold them in place while the hub is being assembled and installed on the bike.

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Re: Wacky Bearing question
Reply #2 - 04/07/15 at 13:40:28
 
I'm sure dave is correct, stock wheel bearings are only sealed on the outside.
You verify this by checking the part number.
In fact the numbers you've listed are for unsealed bearings, there should be a post fix for the seals.
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swing69
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Re: Wacky Bearing question
Reply #3 - 04/07/15 at 14:28:37
 
The stock bearing are: Nachi 6303-2NSE   should be SEALED on both side from the mfr.   I can only imagine that Suzuki removed the inner seals.  No idea why.  Same on the front axle;  Nachi 6302-2NSE.

deleted.......

The larger bearing is NOT sealed on either side and depends on the external seal.  I'm replacing that open bearing with: Nachi 6305-2NSE which is sealed on both sides.  The outer black OEM seal will go back in for looks.  

Are you adding the HD rubber to keep elements out?  not really necessary is using the stock seal AND a double sealed  bearing.

Nachi part number indicates double seals.....   another Savage mystery.     Cheesy
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« Last Edit: 04/30/15 at 13:16:42 by swing69 »  
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Re: Wacky Bearing question
Reply #4 - 04/07/15 at 15:40:01
 
swing69 wrote on 04/07/15 at 14:28:37:
Are you adding the HD rubber to keep elements out?


If you were to place your hands on the front and rear of the belt pulley, with a used bearing you can wiggle the pulley with your hands.  This means that as the wheel spins the pulley hub and wheel hub are constantly moving around.....as the tension of the belt constantly is pulling the pulley forward.  A fresh bearing has little movement - but it take very little time for the bearing to become worn as they really aren't good at taking eccentric loads.

The rubber mat is to take up some clearance and make that bearing hold up longer.  The entire force of the belt is riding on that single bearing in the pulley hub.  Adding the rubber mat takes up some clearance and stops the pulley from being able to rotate forward.

After the first year of riding my Cafe' bike, I was not satisfied that the cut up rubber floor mat was the best solution to the pulley wobble.  The pulley hub has a machined stub that extends into the wheel hub - but the sizes don't match and it allows the pulley hub to wobble.  This is the recess in the wheel hub where the pulley hub slides into......and the wheel bearing is visible.


I first bought a piece of brass tube 2" OD x 1.75" ID from Online Metals.


I then put the pulley hub in my lathe and machined the stub so the brass tube was a tight fit.


I then machined the brass to be a slip fit into the wheel hub recess shown in the first photo.


Now I no longer have any pulley wobble.  The outer bearing stays in good condition as the entire load of the belt is not putting an eccentric load on the bearing.  The outer bearing spins on the axle with the wheel....the inner bushing only moves the small amount that the rubber cushions move....so it does not need to be a bearing and the bushing does fine.....I apply a small amount of grease on the bushing when it is assembled.
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Re: Wacky Bearing question
Reply #5 - 04/07/15 at 17:34:01
 
theoretically, the best place for the bearing is directly under the belt. seems like the big bearing is positioned properly.

How often do the big bearings fail in reg. service on high mileage savages?  there's gots to be 10s of thousands without the mod.

However, I like your solution of tying the drive hub to the wheel hub with the bushing.  good fix.    easier than fitting another bearing for sure.
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Re: Wacky Bearing question
Reply #6 - 04/07/15 at 18:20:39
 
Well.....yes there are a lot of these bikes running around with wobbley pulleys.  The rubber mat solution is the quickest, cheapest and easiest fix.......and it really does work pretty well.
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Re: Wacky Bearing question
Reply #7 - 04/07/15 at 18:24:29
 
With All I'm doing:

Emulators, new bearins, big brake....kinda makes sense to fix the rear hub issue whiles its apart.   Why did you go brass / bronze?  aluminum, heck probably even teflon would work.   anything to kill the "wiggle".

I'm going to do this mod.  good idea Dave.  I just got to get the material to do it.   I probably have something kicking around here.

The hub carrier stub contacts the OD of the bearing, setting its spacing, yes?????  or no

I also need to go back and look at my notes.  There should be a spacer between the carrier center and the first wheel bearing...I think.
I don't remember seeing one though.  Just check a drawing:  #17 retaining drum (64733-31300) should fit between the carrier and wheel bearing.  

I'm almost certain I didn't see one when I took it apart.  Cheap cycle parts has it listed for $11.82.  I hope its in stock if I need it!!! Shocked
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Re: Wacky Bearing question
Reply #8 - 04/08/15 at 03:01:05
 
I went with brass as it is easy to cut, and makes a good bushing.  You need something that is harder (or softer) than the aluminum so that the metals are compatible for wearing against each other.

Yes, there is a spacer that goes into the pulley hub bearing and pushes up against the wheel hub bearing.  This spacer makes the axle nut tighten all the inner races together and keeps the races tight and prevents them form turning or moving.....all the axle parts stay locked in place.  There was a member on this forum who had rear wheel issues.....and it turned out a previous owner had not put this spacer back in when the rear wheel was removed.
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1416252292/0

The OD of the new machined bushing needs to be just slightly less than the OD of the wheel bearings and should be an easy slip fit so it is free to rotate when the rubber hub cushions want to move a bit (the wheel bearings are a press fit).  I cut the new bushing even with the end of the aluminum pulley hub....and it works just fine.  The existing OD of the pulley hub is almost big enough to work but provides too much clearance - so in order to get any thickness to the brass bushing I cut some of the aluminum off the pulley hub so that the brass bushing would fit snug...then I machined the brass to be a slip fit into the wheel hub.

 
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Re: Wacky Bearing question
Reply #9 - 04/08/15 at 04:35:38
 
Just went through all the parts that were removed...twice.   That "retainer drum" spacer is NOT there.  Previous owner didn't have the bike long....so this one goes on the plate of the builder.  Just another "find" in the growing list of things to correct.

I'm so glad I didn't just decide to run the bike as-is (as bought).

It just leads me to wonder how many bike projects / customs or just poorly maintained machines are really out there in the world putting riders and others at risk.  scary.  Shocked
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Re: Wacky Bearing question
Reply #10 - 04/09/15 at 07:57:55
 
you can see the damage to the fins, where the carrier and hub were pushed together.   Roll Eyes
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Re: Wacky Bearing question
Reply #11 - 04/09/15 at 07:59:08
 
.
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Re: Wacky Bearing question
Reply #12 - 04/09/15 at 18:31:25
 
I did the mod, but used a PVC collar.  I'm still shaking my head that the carrier spacer was missing.    Sheeesh.
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Re: Wacky Bearing question
Reply #13 - 04/10/15 at 04:24:58
 
It is easy to lose the spacer in the pulley hub bearing.  When you take the pulley hub off and set it backside down on the floor...the spacer falls out.  I have assembled my rear wheel and then noticed the spacer sitting on the floor....and then had to take the back wheel off again to put the spacer back where it belongs.  (Maybe it would makes sense to put a dab of RTV on the spacer to make it stay in the pulley hub bearing...so it doesn't fall out).

I had thought about using PVC when I made my bushing - some folks who restore antique engines use PVC pipe to make crank bearings.  They are low speed and have grease cups to provide lubrication and the PVC holds up fine.

I ended up not using the PVC as I just didn't know what kind of load this area will receive....and just wasn't sure it had adequate strength.  It is worth a try - as it can't be any worse than no bushing at all!
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Re: Wacky Bearing question
Reply #14 - 04/10/15 at 04:51:33
 
Cutting board .  Tuff plastic p
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