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Yo Bot....... (Read 298 times)
raydawg
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Yo Bot.......
02/20/15 at 13:00:42
 
Hope you (or anybody else) field the question........

Obama has tried a different tactic dealing with ME problems/issues.
We know most administrations have used the threat of, and the actions, of war/combat, with (a) troop presence in trying to stabilize areas of conflict.

Seems we are no closer to ending these "problems" than before.

Now he offers his take of economic solutions and democratic/social considerations as a way to deal with those who of " Islamic" faith who would rather fight the opposition/enemy than to dialogue or extend liberties to those who don't see things, and believe things, as they do.

Tell me Bot, is not Obama trying to "push" his beliefs on them, as a fix?

It reminds me of Christians who "believe" they know a better way and stand on street corners, bullhorn in hand, exclaiming to all who are not saved are going to hell.
They will tell you they are doing this because they care for you and don't want you to die and go to hell.....

The danger of trying to "fix" others, is often we become trapped in our own hypocrisy.
As the elected official representative of our nation, he has advanced his own beliefs, without regard to our system of governing, on the global stage, giving the appearance that he thinks he is superior in reasoning and beliefs, than many around the world.

I don't fault his "heart", as a believer myself, I believe I see where his "hope" generates.
However, I believe this is where separation of church and state needs to exert itself, in our elected officials, as with abortion, gay marriage, etc, on a smaller scale.  

Your thoughts bro?  
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Re: Yo Bot.......
Reply #1 - 02/20/15 at 16:12:07
 
I don't know why anyone is surprised.  In one of his books he said to paraphrase:  "When the political winds change directions I will always stand with the Muslims."

Best regards,
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Re: Yo Bot.......
Reply #2 - 02/20/15 at 18:28:22
 
Standing with a Muslim is not the same as standing with a ISIS Muslim.....

I abhor abortion and consider it grossly wrong and in most cases, unnecessary.....
However, I do not condone or sanction any sort of violence visited on those who have them, or people who provide them.
If my faith is true, by that I mean do I believe all that my Bible says, then I must heed all of it, and that means I must let the Lord judge those who willfully sin without repenting.

Perhaps in context that is what Obama is doing  Undecided  
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Re: Yo Bot.......
Reply #3 - 02/21/15 at 00:13:34
 
me thinks a crusade is over due
not to the religion but the ones who bastardize it
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Re: Yo Bot.......
Reply #4 - 02/21/15 at 05:32:07
 
Telling others to stop pushing their beliefs.... Isn't that in and of itself pushing your beliefs on others?.....

Your problem ray seems to you can't admit to or don't belive in, absolute truth. Much of the world is grey, but much is clear cut. Abortion is wrong, child porn is wrong, robbery is wrong....Islamic Facist are wrong. ISIS is wrong. There's nothing wrong with speaking out against evil.
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Re: Yo Bot.......
Reply #5 - 02/21/15 at 06:28:13
 
thumperclone wrote on 02/21/15 at 00:13:34:
me thinks a crusade is over due
not to the religion but the ones who bastardize it


You wanna expand on this dude?
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Re: Yo Bot.......
Reply #6 - 02/21/15 at 07:03:10
 
WebsterMark wrote on 02/21/15 at 05:32:07:
Telling others to stop pushing their beliefs.... Isn't that in and of itself pushing your beliefs on others?.....

I think how and why you share your beliefs is the telling.....
If invited to dialogue, then its an honest expression of how and why you believe as you do. However, words are often cheap, your actions are the truth revealed....


Your problem ray seems to you can't admit to or don't belive in, absolute truth. Much of the world is grey, but much is clear cut. Abortion is wrong, child porn is wrong, robbery is wrong....Islamic Facist are wrong. ISIS is wrong. There's nothing wrong with speaking out against evil.


See your above post directed at me  Roll Eyes

PS: Yes, much of the world escapes my ability to discern. I see it through my bias eyes, wisdom tells me I should not act upon an assumption, even if I can get justified by those who hold the same view.
Absolute truth exists, of that I am certain (absolutely) I just know it is best left to the one who created truth.

Responding to physical actions of others is not the same as reacting to their beliefs, exampled by those who harm abortionist under the exemption of their faith, for harming (killing) a fetus, as opposed to killing those who don't adopt your faith.

Speaking out against such I have no problem, I just question the method, as I exampled by those standing on a corner yelling through a bullhorn.
What they share is gospel truth, but do you honestly think any of those seeds will find fertile soil, or more likely to cast the intended audience attention to them, assigning "their" truth (interpretation) that those Christians are nuts, instead of pointing to the saving grace of Christ?


A bullet has the ability to stop a threat, or an innocent bystander, but it also has the ability to stop the one who holds it.....
If not handled with care and discernment.

So can words.
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Re: Yo Bot.......
Reply #7 - 02/21/15 at 09:15:47
 
raydawg wrote on 02/20/15 at 13:00:42:
Hope you (or anybody else) field the question........

...Now he offers his take of economic solutions and democratic/social considerations as a way to deal with those who of " Islamic" faith who would rather fight the opposition/enemy than to dialogue or extend liberties to those who don't see things, and believe things, as they do.

Tell me Bot, is not Obama trying to "push" his beliefs on them, as a fix?

Your thoughts bro?  


If poverty and subjugation are lifestyle choices,... then, I suppose Obama is pushing his beliefs on them...
Huh...

Reminds me of the Tea Partiers crying out for their God given right to be denied health-care... (while most are on Medicare and Social Security, or disability)...

There is no "freedom" in being impoverished, hungry, is sick... Undecided...

Peace,  Serow
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Re: Yo Bot.......
Reply #8 - 02/21/15 at 09:41:54
 
Your thoughts on this article...... by Alastair Roderick



The international aid community was sent into conniptions this week as reports from the UN High Level Panel meeting in New York to decide on a framework to succeed the Millennium Development Goals indicated that no target for the eradication of absolute poverty (those living on less than $1.25 a day) was to be included, despite strong lobbying by the British and other European nations.

A focus on absolute minimums is not just about morality, it is highly political. The reduction in extreme poverty is the headline achievement of the MDGs, and so not emphasising this is tantamount to criticising the very idea of development frameworks in general, and the coalition that came together over the MDGs specifically. It was also indicative of the NGO-centred worldview that says the project of lifting people out of poverty is owned by Western aid agencies.

As outlined in a previous blog, and in the Schumacher Institute's submissionto Beyond 2015, the civil society group lobbying the UN High Level Panel, the post-2015 process is in danger of misapplying the lessons of the MDGs and letting hubris overtake analysis.

The NGO world-view unfortunately treats the MDG process as a finished project whose achievements no longer need defending. However, the general consensus that the new framework needs to incorporate more environmental goals - and even add Sustainable Development Goals to the mix - hasn't begun to address how this can be achieved while protecting the gains already won.

Research from the Stockholm Resilience Centre and the CONVERGE project, among others, demonstrate that a growing crisis of environmental decline and resource shocks expected over the next few decades is likely to increase poverty, not decrease it. Yet despite the implications of systemic environmental and resource shocks for current poverty levels, the current frameworks imagines it can go one step further and not just abolish poverty but end inequality too.

Despite a major theme of the post-2015 consultations being the need to better integrate environmental and development targets, the largest aid groups rarely mention the significant barriers to pursuing these quite different goals simultaneously.

The MDGs worked so well because they were politically astute, and because a limited window of opportunity existed to build a coalition and avoid the most contentious disagreements. Even the Americans eventually signed up. The new process is based on the assumption that poverty can be redefined as inequality, and somehow this is connected to protecting the environment, as if these problems occur in discrete boxes and that protecting the environment would never be interpreted as a constraint on the economy.

Save the Children claim that the two tests that need to be passed are 'eliminating poverty in all of its forms' and 'address[ing] the inequality and discrimination' that leads to poverty, without mentioning that a significant form of poverty is caused by stress within the economic-environmental systems within which people live. Describing these as 'inequality' is even less precise than describing them as poverty.

I don't criticise the aid agencies for their motives, but I do question the outcomes. Save the Children have produced good research showing that income inequality leads to, for example, worse nutrition for the very poorest children, widening literacy gaps, and rising prices putting basic commodities out of reach even as the overall economy booms.

Oxfam, who have long invested in research, have developed the useful concept of planetary boundaries, limits to environmental damage bounded on their lower flanks by 'social floors', minimum standards of income and social protection that may require short-term growth to achieve. This at least shows some movement towards the idea that economic development has to be reconciled with environmental protection in recognition that each is dependent on the other.

But success can lead to hubris, and this can obscure the lessons of the past. One of the main reasons that the MDGs were such a success was that they set concrete, achievable and measurable goals with realistic deadlines, and the information on progress was made freely available. The data published publicly on MDG targets can be found here, but even for the headline indicator of the Goals - people living on less than $1 a day - this data is patchy and incomplete.

The current publicly-available dataset on poverty reduction dates from 2010, but only a few countries report data up until 2010 with some countries' data dating back to 1995, only five years older than the 1990 base-line and a full five years before the MDGs even began. Again, absolute poverty reduction was the gold-standard measure for the Goals. Given that the data is poor on the fairly uni-dimensional measure of those living on less than $1 a day, how are we supposed to trust the data for a multi-dimensional measure such as inequality?

Further still, the vast numbers lifted out of absolute poverty are overwhelmingly located in the BRIC nations, as much as 80% by some estimates. This reduction in poverty wasn't based on some Oxfam inequality programme, these nations have averaged 6% growth each year since the MDGs began and inequality has shot up. Which of these nations would be first in line to switch their economic strategy from high growth to inequality reduction?

There has been a growing consensus on the way forward with the Goals: keep going on things that are working; address those that aren't (such as sanitation); differentiated responsibilities; and new SDGs such as on clean water, food systems and ecosystems.

Both the UN and the aid-agencies seem to be leaving things out, however. The High Level Panel is running into the political reality of trying to define poverty and inequality in such a way as to be agreed by 190 countries including huge, fast growing economies such as the BRICs, rich countries with flat-lining economies in Europe and America, and poor countries undergoing commodity and land booms desperately trying to promote new manufacturing bases.

This worldview is happy to trumpet the headline achievement of the MDGs, a reduction of those living in absolute poverty, without being honest about where those ex-poor people live. Poverty has been reduced for these people by state-directed export and commodity-led growth strategies that owe little to Oxfam or ActionAid and the rest.

Nor are they honest about what a switch from poverty-reduction to inequality-reduction would politically entail. Inequality has grown in each of the BRIC nations in the last 15 years, as it always does in countries experiencing rapid economic growth. So to approach Post-2015 negotiations calling for a reduction in inequality when these nations have secured development success precisely by rejecting the Western-NGO's new focus on inequality is to invite failure.

There is a real danger of over-reach because of a world-view that says that what is measured is what is important, that those with money have answers, and that donor's values are universal values. Imagining that poverty is on its way to extinction, this mind-set segues seamlessly into outlawing inequality, confusing once again process with outcome.

As we are debating whether we can transition from poverty-reduction to inequality-reduction (and let's outlaw bad luck and meanness while we are at it) an actual, existential, threat hangs over this whole process. Unless you can reconcile development goals with the significant environmental change and resource depletion expected over coming decades, then all of the progress to date will be reversed and inequality will suddenly seem at lot less important again than absolute poverty.

Two worldviews collide, disorder ensues, and eventually something better rises from the ashes: synthesis. But after synthesis can come hubris, and after hubris comes nemesis. The Post-2015 process is in danger of hubris, of assuming that technical fixes can be applied to problems such as poverty and even to making the world more equal. You have to get the politics right first, and these are not hubristic times.

And this one too.  Kiss

http://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals-network/2014/mar/...
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Re: Yo Bot.......
Reply #9 - 02/21/15 at 11:43:08
 
raydawg wrote on 02/21/15 at 09:41:54:
Your thoughts on this article...... by Alastair Roderick




Too many words... Grin...
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Re: Yo Bot.......
Reply #10 - 02/21/15 at 15:09:14
 
Serowbot wrote on 02/21/15 at 09:15:47:
raydawg wrote on 02/20/15 at 13:00:42:
Tell me Bot


Reminds me of the Tea Partiers crying out for their God given right to be denied health-care... (while most are on Medicare and Social Security, or disability)...


I believe the title of this thread is appropriate for this inquiry.  Serowbot, why do you have such dis-contempt for the right?

Best regards,
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Re: Yo Bot.......
Reply #11 - 02/22/15 at 00:31:46
 
You caught me drunk,.. so I'll risk an answer... Grin...


Basically,... it lacks empathy...
I like the idea of smaller, more efficient government... I also support individual rights, and freedoms,... but not at the cost of others...

I could be a right-wing communist... Grin...
... or an empathetic conservative... Undecided...

The richest country in the world, should not have so many poor, uneducated, sick, and homeless people...
We will not stay the most powerful if we ignore our own people...
Cut spending on wars, and take care of our own...
I'd much prefer my tax money go for food, shelter, and care, than bullets and bombs...

It is too much under the thumb of Evangelical Christian rhetoric...
God, might have leaned right, with all his curses and condemnations,... but his son, was a lefty, feeding the poor, healing the sick, forgiving the sinners...
Jesus would have been a community organizer...
Don'cha think?... Huh...


JMHO,
Peace, Serow...
... and thank you PG,.. for your respectful question...
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Re: Yo Bot.......
Reply #12 - 02/22/15 at 08:28:01
 
Good thread!

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Re: Yo Bot.......
Reply #13 - 02/22/15 at 18:47:02
 
It is too much under the thumb of Evangelical Christian rhetoric...
God, might have leaned right, with all his curses and condemnations,... but his son, was a lefty, feeding the poor, healing the sick, forgiving the sinners...
Jesus would have been a community organizer...
Don'cha think?... Huh...

Bot, you can not separate the trinity without changing everything and thus rendering it mute.

To pick out what suits you, me, or anybody, is the very element that seems to give you fits about organized religions.
I get what you're saying, and it doves with my questions, as man inherently thinks his own beliefs are the best.....
Just like those yelling in a bullhorn on the corner, or you, Obama, etc, telling others they need to ________ for the good of ________ .



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OK.... so what's the
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Re: Yo Bot.......
Reply #14 - 02/22/15 at 20:07:09
 
raydawg wrote on 02/22/15 at 18:47:02:
Bot, you can not separate the trinity without changing everything and thus rendering it mute.

moot...



I can...  I'm sorry if you can't...
Incredibly sorry...

I do believe Jesus could...

There is no condemnation in the teachings of Jesus of anyone, other than for those who would judge or condemn, or feel superior to others...
The ultimate, rebellious son...


I personally, as an atheist,  feel most amazed,.. that the one religion that embodies the teachings of Jesus most... is the one that doesn't acknowledge him as a messiah...
Then again,... Jesus was a Jew... Huh...


I don't wish to argue.... I don't wish to insult...
I'm just stating what I see, as an outside observer... with no religious ties, training, or affiliations...

As a self-trained atheist,... I was never indoctrinated to any bias or direction...
I will say... I admire all religious endeavors that seek to make the world a better, more caring and peaceful place...
... and they all do... (perhaps not successfully)...
Buddhists... direct thought and peace inward...
Hindus...  respect for the unknown and intangible...
Hebrews... for emphasizing the reward of giving rather than asking of God...

Christians and Muslims become a little harder for me to quantify... but,...
Christianity did give the embodiment of caring in the persona of Jesus...
... and Muslims, of which I know the least,... did value and respect, the accomplishments of mankind as divine in itself...

No religion is without virtues or faults...
They are reflections of us all...
I will pick and choose, the good and bad from all, and be the best I can be...

Ask yourself this... if your beliefs have you condemning, and judging others, more than bettering yourself as a human being,... what is it giving you?... and what are you giving to others?...

ISIS,... is bastardizing the Muslim treatise...
Many Christian offshoots are doing the same...

If it isn't making you a better human being,.. it is a waste of time...
If it is making you better,... bless you...
If it is making the impact of your short time here, have more positive motion forward, god bless your God...

PS,... I will not participate in tit-for-tat insults...
I am a lone voice here, and cannot win a shouting match...
I'm just voicing this lone view, because I was asked...
I hope some part might unleash a freedom of thought to other possibilities of personal betterment...
Just be the best person you can be...

Peace, Serow
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« Last Edit: 02/22/15 at 23:41:52 by Serowbot »  

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