SuzukiSavage.com - I'm all gassy!

gizzo Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiCabbage. It's Savage. Posts: 1318 Australia	Re: I'm all gassy! Reply #15 - 02/04/15 at 03:33:13 99 cents per litre in south Australia the past few weeks.
Back to top	IP Logged

justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: I'm all gassy! Reply #16 - 02/04/15 at 08:23:43 That's still more than I've ever paid.
Back to top	The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke. IP Logged

anebv8 Senior Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 280 Rangiora,New Zealand Gender:	Re: I'm all gassy! Reply #17 - 02/04/15 at 23:41:35 gizzo wrote on 02/04/15 at 03:33:13: 99 cents per litre in south Australia the past few weeks. not seen it that low in NZ since the early 2000's
Back to top	Ago Solvo Intereo Puteus IP Logged

gizzo Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiCabbage. It's Savage. Posts: 1318 Australia	Re: I'm all gassy! Reply #18 - 02/05/15 at 03:59:20 Yeah,was on holidays in UnZud last winter and couldn't help noticing paying over $2/ litre for diesel. Eh, what can you do?
Back to top	IP Logged

justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: I'm all gassy! Reply #19 - 02/05/15 at 06:43:22 Late 60s, gas was 35 cents a gallon. Filled the car up for 6 bucks.. Diesel was less than a DIME.. NOW it's more than gas. AND, when they Stopped Adding Lead, reducing the cost of each gallon, reducing the number of steps required, eliminating a dangerous element to transport, the price went UP.
Back to top	The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke. IP Logged

Art Webb Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 3007 columbus, Texas Gender:	Re: I'm all gassy! Reply #20 - 02/05/15 at 19:05:55 They replaced lead with another octane modifier (which some say is even more toxic) It wasn't just a matter of leaving the lead out
Back to top	IP Logged

justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: I'm all gassy! Reply #21 - 02/05/15 at 20:48:11 Lead wasn't an octane anything, it was a lubricant, impact absorber, for the valves and seats. Show me something to make that wrong and I will change my mind.. but, if you want to run an Old engine on today's Regular, you'll hafta put hard seats in the heads.. As far as I know,that's all there is to the story.
Back to top	The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke. IP Logged

Art Webb

Serious Thumper

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 3007
columbus, Texas
Gender: male

Re: I'm all gassy!
Reply #22 - 02/05/15 at 21:23:51

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraethyllead

Tetraethyllead (commonly styled tetraethyl lead), abbreviated TEL, is an organolead compound with the formula (CH3CH2)4Pb.

It was mixed with gasoline (petrol) beginning in the 1920s as a patented octane booster that allowed engine compression to be raised substantially, which in turn increased vehicle performance or fuel economy.[1][2] Ethanol was already known as a widely available, inexpensive, low toxicity octane booster, but TEL was promoted because it was uniquely profitable to the patent holders.[3] TEL was phased out starting in the U.S. in the mid-1970s because of its cumulative neurotoxicity, possible lung cancer contributor [1][not in citation given] and its damaging effect on catalytic converters. When present in fuel, TEL is also the main cause of spark plug fouling.[4] TEL is still used as an additive in some grades of aviation gasoline, and in some developing countries.

that's a direct copy / paste
you are correct about running old engines on unleaded without hardened seats, you need the seats or lead, IF you run the engine hard, engines that are treated with respect will run on unleaded even without the hardened seats for a fairlylong time
the addition of lead, however,was for the octane boosting capacity, and the extra power you could make with it via higher compression, the lubrication / impact absorption was just a nice added bonus

Back to top

IP Logged

justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: I'm all gassy! Reply #23 - 02/05/15 at 22:49:27 Okay,thanks,that's informative,, lead held the knocks down And helped the valves and seats,, I remember Regular and Ethyl,, so,did Ethyl have lead And Ethanol? And what replaced lead? I remember what old guys who pumped gas had reddish complexion,, either they were alcoholic or the gas did something..
Back to top	The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke. IP Logged

Art Webb

Serious Thumper

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 3007
columbus, Texas
Gender: male

Re: I'm all gassy!
Reply #24 - 02/06/15 at 06:42:27

Likely they were alcoholic, mostly the lead was a problem during formulation and in emissions, IIRC
and yes, I think ethyl had the lead plus ethanol
Lead was replaced with another chemical, I think MTBE is the name, which doesn't react badly with catalytic converters (the real reason we got rid of lead, all other problems aside) which is supposed to be less toxic, as well, though some say it's worse
it does penetrate water tables more easily if there's a spill or leak, but I haven't really studied on it's toxicity levels

Back to top

IP Logged

justin_o_guy2

Serious Thumper

Offline

What happened?

Posts: 55279
East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.

Re: I'm all gassy!
Reply #25 - 02/06/15 at 07:29:59

http://www.epa.gov/mtbe/gas.htm

HA! You,sir, have handed me a tidbit of information I Hope I never forget.
MTBE is not used now, I think,, gotta do more reading.. I think that's what it said, I got excited about the information just BEING there and suddenly, there is more to know about lead.
And maybe they were alcoholics...

Okay,NOW I'm a little unhappy,,, and confused..Blast you Art, it's all YOUR fault.. Why couldn't you just leave me in my blissful ignorance?
Now I'm stuck hunting for information on gasoline from the pre-cataclysmic perverter era. I'm easily getting information on Why to use Regular in engines that don't require premium, but the exact differences between the formulations of todays gas and the pre-converter days just isn't Popping up..
Thanks for the clues,
How is it you were in a position to know that? Just dumb luck? Petroleum engineer? Family members work in a refinery?

Back to top

The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.

IP Logged

old_rider Serious Thumper Offline Backyard Bill Productions Posts: 3147 flordia panhandle Gender:	Re: I'm all gassy! Reply #26 - 02/06/15 at 08:38:58 Went up again $2.15 today..... Are they adding more water to the gas now days? Was riding behind a newer car yesterday and they stomped on it, I got sprayed like a water hose on mist.
Back to top	We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us. IP Logged

Art Webb

Serious Thumper

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 3007
columbus, Texas
Gender: male

Re: I'm all gassy!
Reply #27 - 02/06/15 at 11:46:05

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 02/06/15 at 07:29:59:

http://www.epa.gov/mtbe/gas.htm

HA! You,sir, have handed me a tidbit of information I Hope I never forget.
MTBE is not used now, I think,, gotta do more reading.. I think that's what it said, I got excited about the information just BEING there and suddenly, there is more to know about lead.
And maybe they were alcoholics...

Okay,NOW I'm a little unhappy,,, and confused..Blast you Art, it's all YOUR fault.. Why couldn't you just leave me in my blissful ignorance?
Now I'm stuck hunting for information on gasoline from the pre-cataclysmic perverter era. I'm easily getting information on Why to use Regular in engines that don't require premium, but the exact differences between the formulations of todays gas and the pre-converter days just isn't Popping up..
Thanks for the clues,
How is it you were in a position to know that? Just dumb luck? Petroleum engineer? Family members work in a refinery?

I hate TV, or more properly I hate typical television programming on most network (i actually like the science channel, discovery before they wen to 'reality' programming, etc.)
Before I discovered the Internet, I was an inveterate reader (to me the net is sort of like a book you can interact with, with real people in it)
In addition I have mild 'ignoring' ADD, which means if a subject interests me I sort of obsess over it
one of my areas of interest is, or was, hot rodding, and I love tech articles (if HRM published a book of nothing but tech Q&A, I would buy it sight unseen)
so I read a LOT of automotive magazines, with a particular focus on old Iron, and that info was seized on by my brain that remembers the static timing for a '57 Chevy with the Rochester mechanical fuel injection 25 years after tuning one ONCE, but refused to memorize such things as multiplication tables lol
So I am full of odd esoterica like this that not many people give a hoot about

obviously you have a similar thing going on, so having something to research is probably making you very happy, grousing aside Grin

Back to top

IP Logged

Art Webb Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 3007 columbus, Texas Gender:	Re: I'm all gassy! Reply #28 - 02/06/15 at 11:48:53 old_rider wrote on 02/06/15 at 08:38:58: Went up again $2.15 today..... Are they adding more water to the gas now days? Was riding behind a newer car yesterday and they stomped on it, I got sprayed like a water hose on mist. condensation in muff or a seriously messed up fuel management system it don't smell like gas do it?
Back to top	IP Logged

old_rider

Serious Thumper

Offline

Backyard Bill
Productions

Posts: 3147
flordia panhandle
Gender: male

Re: I'm all gassy!
Reply #29 - 02/07/15 at 09:44:49

Didn't smell anything.... the windscreen took most of the mist...and my glasses....
Not enough to blind me, but enough that I had to clean it off when I got to the house.
Streaked the glasses and the windscreen so I guess there was a little bit of chemical left in the liquid.
But it made me wonder if maybe the oil companies knowing that catalytic converters and fuel systems designed to burn a little better might take some more water also...to fill the volume a bit.
We had a local mom and pop store back home that would "water down" their tanks now and again.
Of course they would blame the fuel company for the "knocking" problems their gas would cause. They eventually went out of the gas business and just kept their restaurant/grocery section.

Back to top

We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us.

IP Logged