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american sniper (Read 310 times)
justin_o_guy2
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Re: american sniper
Reply #15 - 02/07/15 at 06:53:20
 
Not sure what the color of reality is.
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: american sniper
Reply #16 - 02/07/15 at 08:27:47
 
No, I haven't seen it. No, I've never eaten crap. I feel equally able to evaluate the value of some things without actually trying them.


http://www.rense.com/general96/amersnip.html



Read the very end, about Pat Tillman.


Clint Eastwood is now by far a much better Director than he is an actor. In the last ten years two of his films rank amongst America's best, 'Grand Tourino' and the under-rated, excellent 'Hereafter.'

In 'American Sniper.' he has kept Directing until he got it wrong. As a film, it fires blanks. As a video game and recruitment poster it is right on target. As a piece of cinematic storytelling, it has absolutely the clumsiest, sloppiest, most gutless ending I have ever seen in a movie.

In order for a film or any story to work, it has to have characters,  people, that you care about or identify with or root for. It's an edict as old as David and Goliath. An outstanding Director and Writer can suck you in to caring and liking and cheering for
people whom in real life you might abhor. There's no better example of this than 'The Godfather.' In this classic, probably the second best movie to come out of Hollywood since 'Citizen Kane,' Director Francis Coppola and Writer Mario Puzzo weave a tale and paint pictures that have you passionately embracing a Mafia family of gangsters and killers, except, in the beginning, Pacino's character.

I had no initial interest in seeing this film. Having seen every Bogart and Cagney and Eddie G. Robinson gangster movie to come out of Warners during the 30's and 40's, by the time the 70's, with Viet Nam and Civil Rights on everybody's mind, I had no desire  whatsoever to revisit overcooked and overdone crooked Italians from the Truman era. But I had to. It was my job. I was a film-critic.

Within minutes of 'The Godfather' I was no longer a film critic. I was a fan. I've now seen it a dozen times. That's what good story-telling is all about.

On the other hand, 'American Sniper' turned me from an Eastwood fan, back into a critic. This is the perfect film to show at film schools on how not to tell a story.

I should tell you honestly,  I also had little desire, excerpt for my liking of most of Eastwood's work, to see  this film. If, at first, I didn't want to see fictitious gangsters in 'The Godfather,' I was repulsed by thought of seeing someone depicted as a hero in a fake war which Bush and Cheney and Rice and Collin Powell all lied us into. I mean, these are real gangsters. Not one word of this truth is uttered in the entire two tiresome hours of video game target practice and carnage.

In fairness to Bradley Cooper and the actress who played his wife, they were compelling. But you notice I said 'played;' and that's what it was. It was 'play acting.' We saw as a kid how Chris Kyle, whose book the film is based on, might be beaten with a belt if he wasn't tough, and a good shot and a good hunter. I was hoping Clint would somehow turn me into a fan by revealing what would compel someone, who didn't have to, who had a young family, why he'd return four times to a ravaged Iraq to shoot from ambush 180 people. Unless that's what he loved to do. Kill people. A legalized, uniformed serial killer.Who can love or even like someone like that? You know who can? The people who voted for Bush. Who else? But Clint failed.

There's a brief attempt to try to make him appear human when a young boy picks up a grenade launcher dropped by an Iraqui whose head Kyle has just blown off. The launcher is heavy as he tries clumsily to raise and fire it. The kid is in Kyle's scope, as he mumbles to himself, 'Drop it,kid. drop it.' Which the boy does. That's it. It reveals nothing. It is meaningless. As is this movie. As was the war.

The only remote reference to this is when a fellow Seal asks him if he's ever wondered why we're here? Again, That's it. Nada. Nothing relevant. And the reason Eastwood doesn't have Kyle give his buddy a good reason is because Eastwood couldn't think of one. Neither could Bush or Cheney. That we were there was enough. Now we're there we've got to support the troops!

And that is the flimsy, stupid answer Eastwood puts in Kyle's mouth when he responds, saying, 'We've got to kill these savages here. Do you want them in San Diego?'

Does anyone, anyone in America actually believe that Iraquis, who had nothing to do with 911, with no Air Force, no Army, no Navy are going to invade San Diego?  How? By disguising themselves as Mexicans and sneaking across the border?

And calling them 'savages' when they are defending their land and families from the real terrorists, as Martin Luther King said loudly, us. Spelled with a U.S! It's what what we called Indians when we stole their land. Or 'gooks,' what we called Vietnamese when we wanted that other fake war escalated..

The real Chris Kyle was found by a jury to be a liar. Fellow SEAL Jesse Ventura was awarded nearly two million dollars when Kyle claimed he punched the former Minnesota governor out. Researchers have found dozens of other tall tales in his writing. One that appears to have made its way into the film is one of the movies high points, for Eastwood anyway! For months an Iraqui sniper every bit as proficient as Kyle, has been popping off American engineers and contractors trying to rebuild the country. (That in itself is laughable.) So, like one of Clint's old spaghetti Westerns, it is now the black hat versus the white hat. And, wouldn't you know it, Clint's wardrobe man puts the villain in black, with a beard to match.

After Blackie pops off another one of our good guys, Kyle spots him through his high powered scope. Over a mile away. And gets him from that distance right through the left eye. And get this colossal cinematic idiocy...With a slow motion bullet!

Some in the audience cheered. Like kids at a Roadrunner cartoon. It pleases the kind of audience that Shakespeare, in Hamlet, called the 'Groundlings!' Even atheists will be compelled to say, 'God save us from these idiots!'

When Kyle finally returns to his family, and almost kills his own dog after a brief flashback, he ends up at a VA hospital. The doctor asks if he has any regrets in killing 180 people. He says, 'No, I would have killed more to save our guys!'

The doctor then says there are soldiers in the hospital who still need saving.  So, after Clint shows us real soldiers with real limbs lost, Kykle befriends some, and takes them to the gun range. For therapy.

And this is where the movie ends. In one of the greatest, clumsiest, most cowardly collapses in story-telling one -o -one. As Kyle climbs into his truck with what looks like a tense young man, and the wife watching suspiciously from the doorway, the screen goes black.  On this black screen up pops the information that Chris Kyle was shot by a veteran he was trying to help.

It gets even worse..

The bible, or some other good book, said, 'Those who live by the sword, die by the sword!'  Kyle lived by the bullet, and we should have seen him die by the bullet. In the head. Then we should have seen the disturbed vet then blow his own brains out. Then we should have gone to black. And stayed there!!! The audience would have been stunned. And speechless. And then perhaps the movie would have finally made a point. Made some kind of sense.

Instead, after the sentence on the screen, the credits roll and under them Clint shows newsreel footage of the long elaborate military funeral. It turned from a moving picture to a recruitment poster.

Chris Kyle may have truly done some heroic things in Iraq to save some of his buddies. As did thousands of others. But that does not a hero make.

You know who was a military hero, though, an American hero? Pat Tillman. After 9/11 Pat immediately gave up a lucrative successful career in there NFL, and believing Bush, enlisted to get 'the bad guys' in Afghanistan. In Afghanistan, it didn't take him long to realize, the bad guys weren't in Kabul. They were in Washington. He now realized he had to go back and fight them. He was in contact with leaders of the anti-war movement here, and planning  to join them when he was shot and killed. Probably by us!

Instead of making a movie about a soldier who kills 180 people, why not make a movie about a soldier who is trying to save thousands.

Do you think Clint Eastwood would have the balls, or the convictions or the smarts to make a movie about Pat Tillman?

I doubt it!
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Re: american sniper
Reply #17 - 02/07/15 at 22:35:18
 
you evaluate using others opinions? and then call something you haven't witnessed crap??
you really are a misguided being

the color of the sky in your world is black
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: american sniper
Reply #18 - 02/08/15 at 21:17:11
 
No, I heard about the movie, I know about the war, I remember Pat Tillman and here I find someone expressing my opinion,it's a load.  Suck it in if it swells your chest,,,
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Re: american sniper
Reply #19 - 02/09/15 at 09:39:13
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 02/08/15 at 21:17:11:
No, I heard about the movie, I know about the war, I remember Pat Tillman and here I find someone expressing my opinion,it's a load.  Suck it in if it swells your chest,,,

just seems your expressed opinions are based on others perceptions
not your own
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: american sniper
Reply #20 - 02/09/15 at 19:23:14
 
I'm not eating crap just so I can say I know it tastes bad.
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Re: american sniper
Reply #21 - 02/09/15 at 19:34:22
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 02/09/15 at 19:23:14:
I'm not eating crap just so I can say I know it tastes bad.


you are right you just spew crap spawned by others
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Re: american sniper
Reply #22 - 02/24/15 at 17:04:24
 
the 'revised' ending of the movie is not even close to the truth, the marine who shot Kyle (and another veteran who was there to help him) in the back did not kill himself, he ran, how is that a 'better ending?'
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Re: american sniper
Reply #23 - 02/25/15 at 02:00:23
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 02/07/15 at 08:27:47:
No, I haven't seen it.
I had no initial interest in seeing this film.
It gets even worse..

The bible, or some other good book, said, 'Those who live by the sword, die by the sword!'  Kyle lived by the bullet


Oh yeah, I deleted all the other 15 paragraphs you posted...

If you did not see it, then how can you print such an elaborate explanation of the movie....

Let me guess.... someone else did it for you... you just cut and pasted their "critique"........

JoG..... please.... post your opinions not everyone else's ... or did you actually watch the movie and not the clips?

Crap... I can't even cut and paste correctly... how am I going to prove my point? Grin
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« Last Edit: 02/25/15 at 14:24:16 by verslagen1 »  

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Re: american sniper
Reply #24 - 02/25/15 at 12:30:14
 
So, someone goes and eats up the load of propaganda and tells me that it was a POWERFUL movie.. I DON'T go watch it,, I have years of experience with evaluating events and seeing lies and I have an Opinion about the movie, the value of it, and basis for it. I believed it was a load before anyone saw it. I just used the reviews that line up with my preconceived notions. Have we forgotten that it took years for the truth about Vietnam to come out?What REALLY happened with the USS Liberty? Who has the guts to admit that to themselves? Who can actually believe that we are righteous in being ANYwhere shooting people?
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Re: american sniper
Reply #25 - 02/25/15 at 14:38:27
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 02/25/15 at 12:30:14:
So, someone goes and eats up the load of propaganda and tells me that it was a POWERFUL movie.. I DON'T go watch it,,

So, for all you know whoever you quoted didn't see it either and could be spouting some other load of BS.
Just like all the other sheeple.
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Re: american sniper
Reply #26 - 02/26/15 at 15:16:37
 
If you want to hate on the Vietnam war go straight ahead
If you want to hate on the men who went over there and did their duty, I'm not with you
Same with Iraq / Afganistan
Soldiers don't make policy, they fight.
if they're ordered to fight the wrong foe, or the right one, for reasons you don't agree with, that's the fault of the administration
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: american sniper
Reply #27 - 02/26/15 at 16:59:40
 
Acknowledging that those who have swallowed the lies and trotted off to kill people, remember, this is a volunteer thing now,  well, you're too wrapped up in emotion to have a real discussion about this..so,is that "hating  " on them, expecting them to Not be Schmucks?
And the economy kinda Demands people "volunteer  ", but how many see that?

You DO know that Pat Tillman was murdered?  And why?
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Re: american sniper
Reply #28 - 02/27/15 at 08:29:49
 
Joining the service to begin with is voluntary, though it wasn't during Vietnam
going in theater when ordered to once you've joined is NOT, you take an oath
you say the truth about Vietnam didn't come out for years afterward, but you call those who didn't know schmucks
That's a personal attack, on folks who didn't know better, and thought they were defending their country, so yes, you're hating on them
I've spoken to many Nam veterans, and none of them were all that bloodthirsty or evil, I doubt, if I talked to a lot of Afgan / Iraq vets, they would be either, that characterization is typically applied by the extreme liberal left, like the NBC talking head who referred to Kyle's carrying out his orders as 'killing sprees' as though he were just shooting folks for fun
I highly doubt that's an accurate characterization, or the guy wouldn't have suffered from PTSD
no different in my view than those who called returning soldiers baby killers without ever facing the reality of 'babies' charging your unit with live grenades
this is the first I've heard of Pat Tillman, you're saying he was murdered by the gov't? and neither the liberal (war hating) or conservative (supposedly war loving) media ran with it? that's very interesting, I'd like to see the data on that
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Re: american sniper
Reply #29 - 02/27/15 at 08:40:45
 
verslagen1 wrote on 02/25/15 at 14:38:27:
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 02/25/15 at 12:30:14:
So, someone goes and eats up the load of propaganda and tells me that it was a POWERFUL movie.. I DON'T go watch it,,

So, for all you know whoever you quoted didn't see it either and could be spouting some other load of BS.
Just like all the other sheeple.


this, as well
If you don't want to watch the movie,fine, but don't make statements about it if you didn't see it, because you don't know, and you don't have any idea if the reviewer was in any way fair about the review, as they often politicize their reviews
Making statements about something you have no actual knowledge of aside from 'somebody told me that' is not a good way to be taken seriously
Interestingly, I agree with you on some things you've posted on in this part of the forums, but this time I do not
I'm not saying the movie is good, I didn't see it either, though I might, but i also don't blast a movie based on what reviewers say, because I've seen too many reviews that were obviously just hate mongering via personal bias / political views
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