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Lookin for extra TQ (Read 170 times)
corey v84
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Lookin for extra TQ
01/29/15 at 17:36:13
 
just did the chain conversion on my savage.. 17f 43r..bike pulls great 1st through 3rd..4th and 5th are great for the highway but I'm having trouble getting up to 75..the bike is stock Except for a bcb pipe and jet kit..what I want to do is stay the same ratio but get extra power for 4th-5th gear for passing on the highway..what options other then different sprokets? Would mind a high compression piston and cam swap
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Serowbot
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Re: Lookin for extra TQ
Reply #1 - 01/29/15 at 21:28:27
 
You can't have low rpm at high speed without good low-end torque...
The pipe may be fighting you on this...
...or,... you're just geared to high...

A 30hp bike is working pretty hard at 75mph... it will never do that at low rpm...
You may want a bigger bike,.. or a slower road...
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corey v84
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Re: Lookin for extra TQ
Reply #2 - 01/29/15 at 23:38:49
 
In stock fourm my bike would hit 75 on issues at all and some times 80..but the problem was she is wrapped out to high, I did the chain conversion to drop my rpm's..now she runs 65 with plenty of throttle left but the power isn't there..I figured a cam and different exhaust would help along with a high compression piston
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old_rider
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Re: Lookin for extra TQ
Reply #3 - 01/29/15 at 23:53:21
 
I had no problem stock at 75 on the interstate.... yeah she vibrated a little, but she complied with my demand....
Rode it from north florida to north Carolina... about 70% interstate....
I can't figure why guys change, what really does not need to be changed...if you want bigger.... faster....
Go out and buy one that is.....

Lots of guys do....

I don't blame folks for wanting more...but to try and make a 650 into a 800 just is not going to happen.

And that's my four cents...  Tongue
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corey v84
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Re: Lookin for extra TQ
Reply #4 - 01/30/15 at 00:39:09
 
Not trying to make it run like a 800, just want a little more out of her. I know it there somewhere
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justin_o_guy2
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What happened?

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Re: Lookin for extra TQ
Reply #5 - 01/30/15 at 00:46:51
 
IDK hoot about the BCB pipe,, I dunno what the stock pulley ratio is.
I Do know that I gutted the header inner pipe and had the outside welded back together, tight, neat, clean job,, dude liked my work and did it for free.. I put his tools up exactly where he had them..
Stage One cam, jetted, Supertrap, 14 disks, some kinda tuning on the air box,, made the volume bigger between carb and filter. It would push past 80 any day, and busted 100 one perfect day.. temperature and humidity matter on these things.
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corey v84
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Re: Lookin for extra TQ
Reply #6 - 01/30/15 at 03:49:12
 
What did you gain from the cam?? Yeah the bcb drag pipe is junk!! Cant gtpet ot to fit right no mattwr what i do
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Re: Lookin for extra TQ
Reply #7 - 01/30/15 at 04:10:45
 
Serowbot is right.....the changes you have made to the gearing have dropped the engine rpm down to a place where it is no longer making enough torque or horsepower to get the job done.

I looked at the 5 speed gearing chart, and a dyno sheet I got offline. For a 65 mph speed the stock engine in that chart was making about 24 hp at 4,400 rpm.  With your gearing the engine has dropped down to about 3,750 rpm at 65 mph.....where it is making about 21 hp.  The gearing change has dropped your available horsepower about 12%.  

You most certainly can get the engine to pull this gearing well - but you do have to make some changes to the engine.  The Wiseco piston in 95 or 96mm will make a big difference as the compression is increased significantly....and the Woessner piston in 97mm helps a bit more.  The Stage 1 or Stage 3 cam will help as well....the Stage 2 may be too much as the power is shifted into the higher rpm - and your gearing will not let your engine get up into those rpm's in higher gears.  Opening up the the "donut" in the exhaust port will help get some additional flow - but rumors are that you should not take it out completely.

I have a 95mm Wiseco, Stage 1 cam, Mikuni round slide, lightly ported head, and I run a 18" rear wheel with 25/65 Kawasaki pulleys.  My bike can pull high gear well, and it runs out of juice in high gear around 85mph.  If I want to go faster (seldom) I need to shift into 4th so that I can allow the engine to gain additional rpm to make more HP so we can battle with the increasing wind resistance.  My bike is a Cafe' conversion and has a bit less weight and wind resistance as I am tucked in more than an upright rider is.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Lookin for extra TQ
Reply #8 - 01/30/15 at 08:31:49
 
Interesting problem, but, the knowledge base here is good enough to get to a good answer. It's kinda funny how folks get serious about asking AFTER they have jumped into something.. Thankfully, it's not a costly, tore sumpin the hecK UP, kinda thing. After seeing several forums, I believe that This one has more How To support than any other I've seen. Unlike the Guzzi forum, we focus on One model. But, when I was changing the piston and valves and having the 4 wheeler job eat me alive I went on that forum and they were horrid. Waited for days to get simple answers, hadda bout Beg for a few clues,, soon as it was done I told them what they could do with that forum and deleted my account. I STILL got email from the administration,wanting to remind me that they were still there,,   PHHHHT, didn't even bother to reply...
Anyway, I like this place,these people and the folks who seem to gravitate to this bike are a different bunch,, so, while others are better at solving the problems and I'm not a carb guru, I don't have a bike anymore,  I STILL enjoy this place.
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Re: Lookin for extra TQ
Reply #9 - 01/30/15 at 09:04:37
 
corey v84 wrote on 01/29/15 at 23:38:49:
In stock fourm my bike would hit 75 on issues at all and some times 80..but the problem was she is wrapped out to high, I did the chain conversion to drop my rpm's..now she runs 65 with plenty of throttle left but the power isn't there..I figured a cam and different exhaust would help along with a high compression piston


Bone stock, or with some 'mods' like a gutted muff? my bike, as it came form the factory, would hit 90 on a flat road without a lot of headwind any day, no problem, with saddlebags on it, 85 going uphill or with a strong headwind, and I hit 80 very easily yesterday on the interstate with a spitfire sheild and bags, and there was throttle left over
this is with a bone stock engine and the carb untwiddled, and a slight whistle timed with engine exhaust pulses that I think means a small exhaust leak
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Re: Lookin for extra TQ
Reply #10 - 01/30/15 at 09:55:13
 
The stock engine doesn't do a bad job of hauling most folks around.  At speeds above 65 mph you just have to put up with the fact the engine is going to be wound up a bit.  That is not unusual...my 250 Ninja is up around 8,000 rpm at that speed, the ST1100 Honda is up over 4,000...the only difference is the bore and strokes are much smaller and they have more than one cylinder....and the rpm is not as noticeable as that big single is moving around quickly.

You can make engine and gearing changes that can drop the engine rpm down significantly, and you can cruise at 70 mph with the engine below 4,000 rpm and it will be pretty peaceful.  Plan on spending $ 1,000 or a bit more, and be willing to pull the engine out of the frame so you can do a piston and cam change, and a bit of head work.  The change is not worth it for some folks....for others it is what it takes to make the bike better suited for them.......and it may be cheaper than buying a different bike.

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Re: Lookin for extra TQ
Reply #11 - 01/30/15 at 10:10:47
 
$1000 doesn't sound so bad, compared to buying another bike
My XS1100 spins about 4k at 70 IIRC, but that bothers me more than the S40 at 70, because I find the frequency of the vibration annoying, where the S40s engine, at the 4400+RPM it needs to run that speed, doesn't bother me, I like it's sound / vibrational frequency better than that of the big I4
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corey v84
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Re: Lookin for extra TQ
Reply #12 - 01/30/15 at 11:45:29
 
Well guess I will buy a 52 rear sprocket for the rear and see where that gets me! Is there a high compression piston out there for the stock bore??
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Re: Lookin for extra TQ
Reply #13 - 01/30/15 at 11:48:38
 
corey v84 wrote on 01/30/15 at 11:45:29:
Is there a high compression piston out there for the stock bore??


Nope.....the Wiseco is built for the DR650, and it just happens that it can be made to work in our bike by boring it out from 94mm to 95, 96 or 97mm.
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corey v84
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Re: Lookin for extra TQ
Reply #14 - 01/30/15 at 12:46:18
 
Thanks dave!!  I know the suzuki gs550 sprockets fit the hub, whats the model with  the cast wheel? The e or l model
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