Wife and I are going to travel to Europe. We were planning on hitting up Italy, not anymore.
Can't believe they would find a verdict of guilty based on motive instead of preponderance of fact.
If this judge is the example of how they do business there, I say I want nut'n to do with you....

http://www.komonews.com/news/national/Knoxs-judge-says-he-suffered-over-guilt...

I sure hope we dont see her extradited.. Unless, of course, she really IS guilty,, I just never bought it,, but hey, I also never had access to the evidence,, Maybe she is a cold hearted killer,, I dunno,,, sometimes people do bad things,,
Anyone ever hear what the motive was?

Raydawg -

I've traveled throughout western Europe on several trips, but have not been to Italy.  Although, business will take me to the Milan area sometime later this year.
My favorite parts are Austria, Switzerland ( my grandfather's home country ) and Germany.
Except for tiny villages in Austria and Switzerland, English is spoken everywhere.  I recall going to the travel bureau in Munich and asking the lady at the counter, in my broken German, if we could converse in English.  Her answer was, "Of course".
Enjoy your trip.

WOW ! So much expected of me in this thread, I'll have to take it by instalments.

OK, here goes.

pg wrote on 02/01/14 at 15:13:33:


SORRY, POST DELETED BECAUSE OF HICCUP, I'VE RECOVERED AND COMPLETED IT  

WOW ! So much expected of me in this thread, I'll have to take it by instalments.

OK, here goes.

pg wrote on 02/01/14 at 15:13:33:


Here are the hard facts:

1. Meredith Kercher was not found by local Police nor by Amanda and her boyfriend; she was found by "Postal Police" (an Institution typical of Western Democracies) because her two cellphones were found by a local woman - ringing - in a garbage bin, and not knowing whose they were, but wanting to return them to the lawful owner, she called the Postal Police (who deal with any/everything communications, including cellphone fraud etc.

2. Meredith and Amanda's "shared dorm" was NOT a dorm, but a small rented villa, something absolutely unusual and expensive in Italy. Hence, both families were particularly well off. More on this later.

3. Amanda Knox denied being in the house nor in the area the night of the crime, but at her boyfriends drinking, having sex and smoking weed all night long.
HOWEVER
ONE EYEWITNESS had them both at the scene of the crime, watching the house from behind bushes, around 2 a.m.
ANOTHER EYEWITNESS had Amanda at a local grocery store buying BLEACH (?) at 7:30 a.m. (they even found the store receipt at Raffaele's house, but no bleach... wonder why?)

4. Amanda immediately blamed one Patrick Lumumba, a Congolese immigrant who ran a night club in Perugia; however, after an initial arrest, investigations soon cleared the man and he was released

5. When Amanda and Raffaele were arrested and jailed, Amanda's conversations with her mother were taped: she commented more than once "she felt guilty for framing Lumumba but couldn't help it".
Why put the blame on somebody innocent, unless you're trying to stray the attention off yourself?

6. Another African, Rudy Guedè, was arrested after evidence had him as a side-participant; he cooperated with investigators and was tried, his 26-year sentence reduced to 16 for cooperation; he was convicted for "accessory" to murder (i.e. was there, may have had a secondary role but was not the material executioner)

7. Everything points at Amanda and Raffaele: DNA, fingerprints, tapes of conversations; as if that wasn't enough, during interrogation Amanda often went beyond the simple "Q&A" session, adding details which the investigators considered as conclusive, but which they could not work out by themselves; in other words, she was giving details which were pinpointing her down beyond any dreasonable doubt.

8. Amanda Knox was defended by Counsellor Bongiorno and Co., definitely Italy's most expensive and most experienced legal firm; so experienced, in fact, they successfully defended Sen. Andreotti (60 years in Parliament) from extremely serious charges of cooperation and corruption with the sicilian Mafia.
So if Couns. Bongiorno was so good, how is it that she lost this case ?

=================

Now, about the Italian Justice System.

In Italy, we DO NOT have County Courts, State Courts and Federal Courts.
Everything is Federal and everything goes according to Dept. of Justice (DOJ) directives.
This also means that Judges aren't nominated by Mayors or Governors, they are DOJ Justices.
Also, the "Lay Jurors" are not "Mr. and Mrs. Jones" as in the US: they are selected individuals who MUST be Law School graduates, and are more often than not Lawyers who sign up because they want to qualify, one day, as Judges.
NOT "Mr&Mrs. Jones"...

Furthermore, we have three levels or tiers of Justice:
1st Trial, done wherever the crime took place; if you're acquitted, you walk and are free forever
BUT if you're found guilty THEN you may appeal.
The Court of Appeals is at Provincial/Regional level (i.e. roughly State/Sub-state to you) and is entirely independent of the 1st Court.
If you're acquitted, you walk and are free forever
BUT if you're found guilty THEN you may appeal to the Supreme Court.
However, even if you are acquitted, the Supreme Court has the authority to investigate on the trial.
It is, basically, a Trial on the Trial, and is done to verify that "Justice is done" regardless of the outcome.

In the "Knox/Sollecito" case, the Supreme Court decided to investigate, the Constitution says it can, because:
a. there was much too much political and diplomatic pressure and foreign interference to guarantee the judges were not left disturbed, and
b. because the sentence and the very wording MUST be consistent with the charges.

In this case, regardless of US Tourists picketing the Courthouse (who cares?) it was considered an unduly interference to have no less than the Secretary of State (Mrs. Hillary Clinton) come and discuss with the Prime Minister over the very trial.
ALSO, there were minute flaws in the Appeals' Court sentence which indicate... the defendants may have been made to walk on purpose, leaving the Supreme Court with the nasty business of ordering a re-trial... namely, Knox/Sollecito were discharged because "it didn't happen", not because "they didn't do it".
In Italian Judicial lingo, the two expressions are somewhat similar, but an experienced magistrate knows which is which, and I would not be surprised to discover the Appeals Court "got it wrong" on purpose in order to give someone else the possibility to "get it right this time".

And before some of you go hollering about incompetent judges, may I remind you:
- Mrs. Clinton shouldn't have stuck her nose into an ongoing trial, and
- Italy is the Country of Machiavelli, lord and master of political strategy since the 15th Century.

So... all in all... my personal opinion ?
If Ms. Knox ever so much as goes to visit any (really, ANY!) EU Country, she'll be arrested before she can say "cafè" and extradited to Italy;
If Ms. Knox ever so much goes to visit any other Country which has extradiction treaties with the EU, she'll be arrested and extradited (this includes all of the British Commonwealth and literally all Latin American countries except Brazil)
OR
You guys get to keep an Oscar-winning actress, and we are returned Chico Forti, an Italian entrepeneur framed by known and wanted fraudsters for a murder he blatantly did not commit.
Google it.
You wouldn't want to be in his shoes.

PS Patrick Lumumba, the night club owner who went to jail and lost his job because of false accusations, is now sueing Amanda Knox for damages... of course, the Italian DOJ will tab the bill because Amanda is home.

Poor lil' girl...



NOT your average Joan of Arc...

Interesting, thanks for the detailed post Pesci.

WebsterMark wrote on 02/02/14 at 13:17:35:


1. Hungarian is NOT a Latin-based language... nor is it a Germanic-based language...
HUNGARIAN IS A HUNGARIAN-BASED LANGUAGE, IT IS ONE OF THE THREE SURVIVING HUNGARO-FINNIC LANGUAGES IN THE WORLD.
(the other two being Suomi and Eesti or Finnish and Estonian)

2. In Italy tourist signs, instructions and even the subway announcements are in Italian and ENGLISH!
Try asking the FRENCH for anything not in French!

3. Please be informed that Switzerland and Sweden :
- are NOT the same Country,
- are NOT close to each other,
- do NOT speak the same language.

You can't say you weren't warned !

Thanks for the insight. I did not and dont generally follow this stuff.. as has been said.. sex and murder gets media in furry. It seemed pretty certain the three (2 murderers and the victim) were all in the house together... so somebody had to have killed her.

I thought you were pretty generous... you didn't say" the US can keep the murderous little ..." I kinda figure someone over there is thinking it.  

PS: I like watching youtube post from other countries... and somehow stumbled on this several months ago. It struck me as very funny, as most in the US wouldn't be able to the tell the difference between the two ( or at least don't think they could). Its rather like a blond telling blond jokes (to most of us).