SuzukiSavage.com - cone filter question

Kirill Timofeev Ex Member	cone filter question 01/26/14 at 19:05:31 Hi folks, do you think this filter can be used with savage: http://www.ebay.com/itm/60MM-CHROME-AIR-FILTER-Cone-Honda-Kawasaki-Suzuki-Yam... ? Thanks, Kirill
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Re: cone filter question
Reply #1 - 01/26/14 at 20:55:26

No. You need 57mm inside diameter. I'm going from memory, but it should be 2 1/4". Lancer or one of the other "old regulars" posted a source and price in Technical. 'Also keep in mind the passage on the edge of the circumference of the carb neck so you dont block it. Rejetting may be required and remember to account for the complete flow from air in to exhaust out. Lancer, any advice?

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Kirill Timofeev Ex Member	Re: cone filter question Reply #2 - 01/26/14 at 22:28:42 Filter on ebay is 60mm, can it be installed using some kind of adapter? Or there are other reasons why it shouldn't be used?
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Yoshi Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 874 LongIsland, N.Y. Gender:	Re: cone filter question Reply #3 - 01/27/14 at 03:54:07 I just bought the same one for my savage 3mm difference between 57 and 60 should be able to be clampped
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Re: cone filter question
Reply #4 - 01/27/14 at 09:53:38

For those of you wanting to do the Cone Filter conversion, there is a detailed description in the Technical Documents area. Members are encouraged to look at this section, especially the Table of Contents with links at the top that has the threads indexed.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1181745927

Cone Filter thread:

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1183926901/0

Also, if you are putting on a filter - be sure it does not block the flow to the oval shaped vent at the top of the carb throat. If you block this off with the rubber grommet of the filter.....your bike is going to run very poorly.

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: cone filter question Reply #5 - 01/27/14 at 10:53:23 Quote: your bike is going to run very poorly. Read Like Crap
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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28884 L.A. California Gender:	Re: cone filter question Reply #6 - 01/27/14 at 11:46:13 justin_o_guy2 wrote on 01/27/14 at 10:53:23: Like Crap All pod filters tend to run like crap. Air flow thru the filter doesn't have time to straighten out and stabilize before entering the carb. A short straight section is recommended... how long? same as the stock rubber ducky on there now.
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Re: cone filter question
Reply #7 - 01/27/14 at 19:22:03

Yoshi wrote on 01/27/14 at 03:54:07:

I just bought the same one for my savage

3mm difference between 57 and 60 should be able to be clampped

It's kinda' like dialing a phone number. Close ain't good enough; especially when the correct size is available. And only change one thing at a time, so you can start over if it doesn't run. Wink

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Kirill Timofeev

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Re: cone filter question
Reply #8 - 01/27/14 at 19:42:36

Thanks a lot for information and thanks for the links Dave. I read those threads, but unfortunately nothing was said if 60 mm filter can fit 57 mm flange. Filter on ebay I was asking about claims to use washable no oil design. It would be interesting to hear from anybody who used this filter how it affected performance and what are service intervals between filter cleaning. I tried to find performance impact information on the internet and here are links I found:
http://www.fastcar.co.uk/2012/05/04/performance-car-air-filter-test/9/
http://blog.perrinperformance.com/foam-filter-qa-why-they-are-the-best/

According to those articles cone filters are less restrictive than standard airboxes (at least for cars) and foam filters a superior to others. I wonder if this correlates with experience of people, who played with different filters on their savages.

Thanks,
Kirill.

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Re: cone filter question
Reply #9 - 01/27/14 at 22:20:10

An unrestricted intake... like an unrestricted exhaust,... will make maximum HP...
All other things being equal...
...but, it is at the expense of narrowing the powerband...
This works for a 1/4 mile racer... because they will go full throttle for a few seconds in a straight line...(drag racers launch at full throttle and slip the clutch... they can't take off from idle because they have no powerband)...
In the real world,... torque rules...
A wider powerband, will accelerate, from idle... give performance in all gears,.. and be forgiving when the unexpected happens...
And never sound like it's working hard...

Also,.. (although, I've never heard of a washable no_oil air filter),... it would be, in effect, a non-filter... it might as well be a velocity stack)... which will work well for a narrow range. high rpm, drag engine, that is intended to be rebuilt every 10 or 20 passes... (that's a 5 mile engine life)...

You need filtration for engine life...
...and you need restriction in intake and exhaust, to widen the powerband...
Particularly with a low rev big thumper,... because it will never turn 12k rpm... it needs to have wide torque...
Sacrificing torque for HP in a thumper, is taking away the only advantage a thumper has... and trying to make it act like a high rev engine...

A large mass, low rev engine, makes torque...
A low mass, high rev engine, makes HP...
You can't make apples out of oranges...

Our bike requires some restriction in breathing, in order to perform at it's best...
Fortunately,.. this will also make an engine last longer too...
Filtered air, is as important as clean oil, in making an engine last...

Once you have limited rpm (in our case it is limited by the weight of the larger moving parts)... you can only gain HP, by reducing the powerband.... and that just ain't good math in a low rev bike...

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Kirill Timofeev Ex Member	Re: cone filter question Reply #10 - 01/27/14 at 23:25:08 Thanks for good explanation Serowbot. I was not thinking of increasing hp, I thought of simplifying things a little bit (e.g. for taking off carb) without sacrifycing filtering quality. If best filtering quality can be provided only by stock filter and airbox I definitely wouldn't switch to cone filter. Thanks, Kirill.
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wambr Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 610 Russia, Samara Gender:	Re: cone filter question Reply #11 - 01/28/14 at 06:42:41 Kirill, are you russian? where are you from?
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Kirill Timofeev Ex Member	Re: cone filter question Reply #12 - 01/28/14 at 08:30:50 Yes, I'm russian, I'm from Saint-Petersburg, currently in Seattle.
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Kirill Timofeev

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Re: cone filter question
Reply #13 - 01/28/14 at 20:27:46

I come across this article today: http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Airboxes.html

Do we have resonant airbox on savage? If yes stock filtering system can't be substituted with anything smaller. Otherwise theoretically it should be possible to create small air filter that would have characteristics (in terms of flow restriction and filtering quality) similar to stock filter. Or I'm missing something?

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Re: cone filter question
Reply #14 - 01/28/14 at 21:05:12

I am no real student of optimizing airflow thru a motor, BUT, I did read some before I started messing with the air filter. What I read was, The volume behind the filter needs to be at least as big as the volume of the cylinder. I spent quite a bit of time working inside the air box to increase the volume. I probably gained 70 or 80 CCs with the stuff I did,, If I had it to do over, Id leave the intake alone, stay stock, paper filter,, Its not gonna make a difference to speak of,, If someone just wants the open look,, okay, I get that,, BUT,

Before I made a change like that, Id run it against a stop watch, Id run it wide open, pay attention to temperature & humidity, because when those change, performance changes,so, before & after tests need to be on days close in temp & humidity,,
If someone is trying to gain performance, they really should do it scientifically.,.know how it runs before change is made, compare to performance after,., Thats something this board has not done,

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