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In Need of expert tape/paint help. (Read 357 times)
Dave
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In Need of expert tape/paint help.
12/23/13 at 07:23:27
 
I am in the process of picking out a paint scheme for my bike.  I have decided to use a checkerboard stripe down the middle of the tank and fenders.  The bike will be red, the stripe will be the base red with black checkerboard pattern, and there will be a thin white stripe on each side of the checkerboard stripe.

My GT550 tank has a raised panel down the center, and on Saturday I played with taping off the stripe and spraying it with a rattle can to see what kind of success I would have.  It was just a quick tape and spray and I only did from the filler neck back.....and I like the look.



The problem that I have is first you tape off a grid and make the a set of squares, then when that is dry you have to go back and tape over one set of squares to make the next offset set of squares to complete the checkerboard.  When the tape crosses over the tape going the other way, it is hard (impossible) to get the tape to seal and paint bleeds under the tape.  I used 3/4" masking tape on the tank, and then later I tried taping up a piece of metal siding using the blue fine line tape that you get at auto paint stores....and I took great care to push the tape down with my fingernail and a screwdriver.  I still had a bleeding problem.  Maybe the rattle can paint is thinner than what would be sprayed from gun for a base coat/clear coat and that paint would not bleed as much.



So my next thought is that I can go to a vinyl sign company and have them cut out the squares in vinyl, and I can either use them to tape out a grid to be painted.....or just use the black vinyl squares and then clear coat over them.  My thought about using the vinyl as (tape) stencil to be sprayed over.....is the vinyl is made to stick and the adhevsive is much more aggressive than masking tape - it may be really hard to get off after spraying the paint.

I am thinking at this point I paint the red color, then apply the vinyl squares, then the white vinyl stripes, then clear coat over everything.  Anbody got a better idea?  

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Re: In Need of expert tape/paint help.
Reply #1 - 12/23/13 at 07:48:32
 


Hopefully the image of a roll of checkerboard tape leads off this reply. Like you I would rather have painted checks but I don't know the best way to do that.

Several custom shops and various vendors on ebay sell the tape.  I think that is the way most people are doing it but then you are stuck with a white background.
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Re: In Need of expert tape/paint help.
Reply #2 - 12/23/13 at 07:54:52
 
Checkerboard is done with some very careful taping off and good paint spraying technique, mainly a couple three light coats instead of one heavy one. Expensive, no bleed masking tape too.
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Re: In Need of expert tape/paint help.
Reply #3 - 12/23/13 at 07:57:52
 
engineer wrote on 12/23/13 at 07:48:32:
http://thumbs1.ebaystatic.com/m/m83bCYTS6XpHZCPRoqG-BUQ/96.jpg

Hopefully the image of a roll of checkerboard tape leads off this reply. Like you I would rather have painted checks but I don't know the best way to do that.

Several custom shops and various vendors on ebay sell the tape.  I think that is the way most people are doing it but then you are stuck with a white background.


I don't think tape will work, as the tank and fenders are both compound curves and flat tape of any kind won't be flexible enough to adapt to the shape.  The actual size of the square will need to be adjusted a bit to account for the fact that the length of the stripe will be longer in the center and shorter on the edges.
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Re: In Need of expert tape/paint help.
Reply #4 - 12/23/13 at 08:02:28
 
Dave,
I am certainly no expert but back in the day after the tape was down, we would apply one or two very light coats of clear to seal the tape edges and prevent bleed.

For what it is worth
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Re: In Need of expert tape/paint help.
Reply #5 - 12/23/13 at 08:05:53
 
S-P wrote on 12/23/13 at 07:54:52:
Checkerboard is done with some very careful taping off and good paint spraying technique, mainly a couple three light coats instead of one heavy one. Expensive, no bleed masking tape too.  

Exactly- as soon as you put it on wet enough to flow it will flow under the edges of the tape. Several "mist" coats with enough time between them for the paint to dry thoroughly is the answer. After everything is dry, remove the tape and wet sand with 1000 grit paper to remove the edges of the paint and then clear coat.
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Re: In Need of expert tape/paint help.
Reply #6 - 12/23/13 at 08:33:38
 
Hey Dave how about visiting some local sign shops and seeing if they would make a vinyl wrap just for the center raised part of your tank with the checkerboard, the nice thing about that is they can taper it to aesthetically fit the contours of the tank better too like a pro painter/taper would.
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Re: In Need of expert tape/paint help.
Reply #7 - 12/23/13 at 09:00:38
 
Blinky.....The light coat of clear is a great idea.

And to the others that have suggested using dry coats.....that will help as well as I did apply the rattle can paint in a pretty heavy coat.

Also.....I just got back from the auto paint supply store.....and they had some advice as well.  They commented that the blue fine line vinyl tape I used in the second trial is wound very tight on the roll.....and that it shrinks once you take it off the roll....and that tends to make it pull up off the surface a bit when it goes over another taped line.  They suggested that you pull a piece off the roll and cut it to the length you need....then let it sit for a bit for the size to stabilize.  It will then stay down better once it is applied, and that you need to be careful not to pull tightly on it while it is being applied.

They also sold me a roll of green fine masking tape that works better for making straight lines, and it stays down better than the blue which is really made for making curved lines.

And finally......if I can't make the paint work well on some sample pieces, I will try going the vinyl sticker or vinyl wrap way.

Thanks.....they have all been very helpfull suggestions, and I hope this turns out to be a great group project for us!  
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Re: In Need of expert tape/paint help.
Reply #8 - 12/23/13 at 09:39:03
 
You could always paint the tank red, get an inverted tape from the graphics shop (meaning they use a clear tape with the checks picked out), apply the inverted clear tape, cover the whole tank, spray your black, then wait for dry, peel the tape, polish (to take off the sharp edges of the squares), and then clear coat.

Or paint the tank black, then apply your graphic tape (with squares already cut but not removed), peel it off leaving the squares, paint your red, the carefully peal the squares away, polish, then clear coat....

Or... get an artist to paint each square by hand....

Hope this helps....
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Re: In Need of expert tape/paint help.
Reply #9 - 12/23/13 at 12:25:56
 
old_rider wrote on 12/23/13 at 09:39:03:
You could always paint the tank red, get an inverted tape from the graphics shop (meaning they use a clear tape with the checks picked out), apply the inverted clear tape, cover the whole tank, spray your black, then wait for dry, peel the tape, polish (to take off the sharp edges of the squares), and then clear coat.

Or paint the tank black, then apply your graphic tape (with squares already cut but not removed), peel it off leaving the squares, paint your red, the carefully peal the squares away, polish, then clear coat....

Or... get an artist to paint each square by hand....

Hope this helps....


The inverted tape issue has two problems.  The flat sheet cannot deal well with the compound curves.  Imagine trying to press the paper/vinyl on the top of your helmet.....and you will understand what it is going to be like to get it onto the curved part of the bodywork behind the seat.  Also, for a checkerboard to be made on a single sheet.....there is essentially nothing connecting the squares together....they only touch at a tiny tip.  They can make checkerboard patterns when they have the paper backing to hold them together - but once again that paper is really bad at following curves that go in both directions.

I am going to paint the bodywork red first, then get a clear coat on it to protect the base paint.  Then I will start masking and painting on top of that.  One reason is that the red should be painted over a light colored base, and the black covers well over any color.  I most likely will do the white stripes last.....as it will be difficult to get the absolute correct spot for the stripes prior to knowing exactly where the edges of the squares will be.

Taping is really the best way to work through the curves....if it can be done without bleeding under all the tape edges.
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Re: In Need of expert tape/paint help.
Reply #10 - 12/23/13 at 14:48:04
 
Dave the good/bad thing about the vinyl is that when you heat it a little, you can bend it over humps, bumps and small curves.
Now I'm not talking vinyl "tape", i'm talking vinyl "decals", some places its considered the same thing... but the decal stuff can take paint.
My little ninja has decal vinyl


The one on the muffler heat shield washed off after I tried to use a solvent on it, so I peeled it off, it had been on for about 5 months and came off easily.
The star and bar decal actually goes over a curving hump, took a little time but I got it good enough
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Re: In Need of expert tape/paint help.
Reply #11 - 01/16/14 at 06:50:23
 
I have been working on this, and by the weekend I will know if I have what it takes to do the checker pattern.

I did my first base/clear coat work in 10 years last weekend.  It went well, except for the thumb print I must have put on one side panel....the paint would not stick to that area at all.  I had wiped all the parts down with wax and grease remover - but I must have missed a spot.  I had to clean, sand and re-prime that area, and will repaint it this weekend.


I painted a piece of scrap aluminum with the primer and paint that was left in the gun when I was done spraying the real parts.  I am using this panel to be my test subject for the taping and painting of the checker pattern.  Now that I am spraying with my gun again.....I realize how little control you have with a rattle can.  I sure I can put the paint out thinner and drier with the spray gun, and I have a lot more control over how much paint comes out of the gun....and hopefully that will stop the paint creep under the tape edges.  In retrospect I sprayed way too much paint when I did the rattle can trial.




I taped this up with 1/4" tape and did it quickly....so that I might learn how precise I have to be when doing the final taping.  I also found that you have to have the work directly in front of you - if you start tapinng off to either side the lines started to get crooked and made a noticdeable and cumulative slant to the tape lines.  This is a flat piece of aluminum, while  the bike fender, tank and seat are curved - and there will be some work needed to correct for the curvature as the tape is being applied.  The stripe width may ultimately be 1/4" for the front fender, 1/2" for the tank....and 3/16" for the seat/rear fender bump.  I need to see this sample in person to help me decided on the width to use.
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Re: In Need of expert tape/paint help.
Reply #12 - 01/16/14 at 06:59:07
 

The first coat over the tape determines the amount of bleed through underneath the tape edge.

So go very light on that first coat.

Second coat, same again -- very light.

You cannot lay down thickness until there is a solid barrier of dried paint at the tape edge.

Next, the tape you use counts -- get car painter's tape that is proof against car paint solvents.


..... that's all the expert I got, sorry.    My car and bike painting career was long ago and far far away, back in my college days.
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Re: In Need of expert tape/paint help.
Reply #13 - 01/16/14 at 07:14:26
 
Thanks OF.

The tape I am using is all 3M fine line tape I bought from Auto Paint Suppliers.  I just spent $ 45 yesterday on tape!

I am thinking that maybe the paint application for the squares does not need to be really dark and heavy....it might be fine just to have an even mist of black color that defines the checkerboard.  The only problem with that is how does an amature painter apply an even mist on all the sufaces.....in two seperate tape applications?  If the square colors are not consistent it will not look good.  I will experiment a bit with that.....maybe I just do a single light mist with the black color.
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Re: In Need of expert tape/paint help.
Reply #14 - 01/16/14 at 08:18:02
 
I think the trick is to use a single sheet to mask... (the problem seems to occur where the tape  lines cross over each other)...  Huh...


If you really want it painted instead of a sticker,.. you might consider trying laying down a sticker,.. then hand cutting out the squares and using the result as yer' mask...
... I'm no painter... just thinking out loud... Huh...
http://www.amazon.com/Con-Tact-Creative-Covering-Self-Adhesive-Boardwalk/dp/B...
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