To be (very) honest I had heard something about the Khazarians during  a visit to the Ukraine (my old job until Jan.2012) but,
again,
to be (very) honest I had to look them up in Wikipedia to make sure I was thinking the same as you were thinking.

It's a long read, but I assume you want me to comment on their conversion to Judaism in the Lower Middle Ages.

I wouldn't be surprised, and before then they were pagan (actually, most pagans are either animistic or more simply "of another religion from the storyteller"   )
so their conversion to Judaism should not surprise anymore than the Turkish conversion to Islam or the Germanic conversion to Christianity.

I'll keep on reading...  

pg wrote on 01/02/14 at 14:36:53:


Hello PGAMBR, no I am not kidding, but unless you are Catholic or Orthodox or Lutheran or Episcopal (the US version of the Church of England, aka Anglicans) I have noticed there is a lot missing from Protestant Theology.

Please note that, to the best of my understanding, only the four listed above have a true Priestly class, all other Protestant denominations apparently  do not have a"Seminary" where candidates study to be consacrated Priests. So one may feel "the calling" but may often lack the availability of the necessary theological education as found in a network of seminaries.

Here is the original text of the "SYMBOLUM" aka "The Creed of the Apostles". The bold part is the one I am referring to.

Credo in Deum Patrem omnipotentem, Creatorem caeli et terrae,
et in Iesum Christum, Filium Eius unicum, Dominum nostrum,
qui conceptus est de Spiritu Sancto, natus ex Maria Virgine,
passus sub Pontio Pilato, crucifixus, mortuus, et sepultus, descendit ad inferos, tertia die resurrexit a mortuis, ascendit ad caelos,
sedet ad dexteram Patris omnipotentis,
inde venturus est iudicare vivos et mortuos.
Credo in Spiritum Sanctum,
sanctam Ecclesiam catholicam, sanctorum communionem,remissionem peccatorum,carnis resurrectionem,vitam aeternam.
Amen.[20]

Here is also the translation into English (pity you didn't care to check the link, Wikipedia too chyallenging for you ?   )


I believe in God,the Father almighty,Creator of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,was crucified, died and was buried;
he descended into hell;on the third day he rose again from the dead;he ascended into heaven,and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty;
from there he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
in the holy catholic Church,the communion of saints,the forgiveness of sins,the resurrection of the body,and life everlasting. Amen.[23][24]

Church of England[edit]

In the Church of England there are currently two authorized forms of the creed: that of the Book of Common Prayer (1662) and that of Common Worship (2000).


Book of Common Prayer[25][26][27]
I believe in God the Father Almighty,Maker of heaven and earth:
And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord,Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost,
Born of the Virgin Mary,
Suffered under Pontius Pilate,Was crucified, dead, and buried:
He descended into hell;The third day he rose again from the dead;
He ascended into heaven,And sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Ghost;
The holy Catholick Church;The Communion of Saints;The Forgiveness of sins;The Resurrection of the body,And the Life everlasting.Amen.

Common Worship[28]
I believe in God, the Father almighty,creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to the dead.
On the third day he rose again;he ascended into heaven,he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
and he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,the communion of saints,the forgiveness of sins,the resurrection of the body,and the life everlasting.Amen.


Lutheran Church[edit]

Lutheran Service Book
I believe in God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth.
And in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,born of the virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,was crucified, died and was buried.
He descended into hell.On the third day He rose again from the dead.
He ascended into heavenand sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty.
From thence He will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy Christian Church, the communion of saints,the forgiveness of sins,the resurrection of the body,and the life everlasting.
Amen.[29]

The creed is footnoted in the LSB for the word "Christian." It states, "Christian: the ancient text reads "catholic," meaning the whole Church as it confesses the wholeness of Christian doctrine."[30]

The United Methodists commonly incorporate the Apostles' Creed into their worship services. The version which is most often used is located at #881 in the United Methodist Hymnal, one of their most popular hymnals and one with a heritage to John Wesley, founder of Methodism.[33][34]
It is notable for omitting the line "he descended into hell", but is otherwise very similar to the Book of Common Prayer version.
The 1989 Hymnal has both the traditional version and the 1988 ecumenical version (see below), which includes "he descended to the dead."

So, what do we see ? We see that many (modern) variations, especially among Protestant denominations, have translated "descedit ad inferos" not as "descended into hell" but as "descended to the dead".

Where is the difference ? There is none, provided you are not Christian but Graeco-Roman, and sacrifice to Jupiter, because "Inferos" was  the collective Kingdom of the Dead, be they good or bad.
(See the Odyssey and Ulysses' descent into Hades to speak to his mother and to Achilles, to name one example)

But if you are Christian and separate Heaven from Hell, "Inferos" has only one meaning.

You have the floor, Sir  

Sorry to disappoint you, I'm not disputing you view points.  I consider myself a very moral person; although, I know very little regarding theology.  

Hello WebsterMark,  nice hearing from you.
And Hello PGAMBR too.

To all, I am not a theologician by any means, I am just an extremely curious person who was not satisfied at all with the "tales and stories" told during Sunday School, and wanted to know more.

Rather than just "read the Bible and learn it by heart", I decided to take the bull by the horns and dig deep.
This meant, for me, a Catholic, reading books written by Protestants and Jews, reading the "Confutations against Jesus" written by an Islamic scholar, and think and ponder deeply about what I was reading.
Ask questions. Ask embarrassing quesitons to clerics and priests and ask them why they only had prefabricated answers, not real answers.

To me Christianity is like an apple.
Most people are content with "oh, the apple is a shiny red round fruit" and that's that.
They are content with being "skin deep" Christians, meaning they are happy with learining their prayers, going to Church on Sundays and "behaving well".

Not me. I know less than half the prayers I once knew, and even those I think I know, I sometimes skip a verse or reverse them.
BUT
I want to go Beyond "skin deep". I have discovered there's a rich, juicy, sweet crisp meat below the skin, and the more I dig, the more I feel nourished and interested in going deeper still.

There are two stories or events in the Gospels with a character named "Lazarus", IIRC:
1. The Rich Man "Crapulon" (idyomatic for "rich&fat") and poor Lazarus,
2. Lazarus of Bethany, whose sisters go search for Jesus and complain he's late... their Brother "has been closed up for three days and stinks"

The first incident is a true parable, but has little of Christian values... meaning the same story is found in Egyptian, Persian, Babylonian and even Graeco-Roman teachings.

The second incident is 99% of the time told as a "raising from the dead", with a minor innuendo which, if read in its true light, is of MAJOR importance.

Jesus' Disciples (not his 12 Apostles, but his closest followers) and the Essenes themselves described themselves as "the Living", calling the "secular Jews", i.e. those content with going by the Laws as a standard routine "the Dead", i.e. "those who have missed the message".

Now, let's re-read the "raising of Lazarus": he's been "closed up for three days", "stinks" (who wouldn't after wearing the same clothes for three straight days?) "is dressed in white"...
... "is raised from the Dead" (notice the capital "D").

Would all this mean anything to you? Do anyone of you see anything between the lines ?

Personally, I see a period of abstinence, prayer, preparation in a tiny sealed space which is typical of many religious groups since 3000 BC...

I see an INITIATION.

I'll tell you more... read Mark 14, what is going on in the Gethsemane ?
Then , after a quizzical raised eyebrow, read Mark 16, who is that man in front of Jesus' Tomb ?

Now... do you see the connections ?

Do you see why I insist on digging deeper and deeper in the meat of this "mystica apple" ?

Have a nice 2014  

I am sorry, perhaps I did not explain myself perfectly.

John 16,12 : " I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now"

John 21,25 : "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen."

The Gospel of John is often referred to as "The Priestly Gospel" because it is of a highly mystical and esoteric content,
and destined to the Pastors as opposed to the three Synoptic Gospels, which are destined to the Congregation (the sheep)

I stand by my words. I do not expect you to agree with me, merely to realize I have been reading and pondering and studying these things for the last 30-odd years.

Gents, both you have a lengthy head on start on me with this topic.  Although, I find it extremely interesting.  Not long ago a pastor moved into my neighborhood and he is genuinely a good person who I have gotten to know well.  We've had numerous discussions on various books in the bible.  Not all my questions have been answered; hence, I also look for deeper meaning and clarification.

Jerry Eichenberger wrote on 01/06/14 at 13:52:52:


Thank you, Jerry, my point exactly.

No offense to anyone on this Forum, directly or indirectly, but being a priest is the mystical or spiritual equivalent to being a Doctor, that is, a medical doctor.
You cannot simply "feel the call, have the inspiration" and consider yourself a doctor.
You have to go to Medical School and pass all the tests, do an internship and pass that as well.

Similarly, a Priest, be he Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican (Episcopal) or Lutheran, will go to a Seminary and study Theology for years and years, then be appointed a Deacon and serve in a parish,
then be consacrated a Priest and work as a junior grade priest in a Parish before being judged mature and competent enough to be made a Rector or a Vicar, i.e. the Head of his own community.

mpescatori wrote on 01/02/14 at 07:43:01:


I must correct myself, those desert-dwelling, nomadic people were not "Jews", they were "HBRW", "Habiru", "Hebrews" as opposed to "Israelites".

They were the descendants of Heber, or Eber. There are a nukber of Ebers in the O.T., one being a grandson of Shem, thus a Greatgrandson of Noah, another being mentioned in Numbers.
Whichever, the HBRW were what you today would call "Bedouins".