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ARM vs Intel "football" - first quarter (Read 53 times)
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ARM vs Intel "football" - first quarter
11/25/13 at 02:10:47
 

I've compared ARM and Intel's current struggle to a football game where one team was on the field and the other was still sitting in the locker room doing yet another redesign --- and it stayed that way for a long long time until Intel finally got Bay Trail out on the field and the contest finally started.

So, what actually happened in the first quarter once the players were all on the field?

ARM's third string bench players, the cheapie Chinese guys ran most of the plays for ARM, swacking vigorously at each other the entire time while pretty much ignoring the fact that Intel was finally out on the field.   They continued their internal grudge matches unabated and with great enthusiasm.  

ARM's first string players never seemed to do much during that first quarter, and some of them actually decided to leave football completely as it cost them too much to even play the game any more.   So the third string Chinese guys got the nod from ARM coaching to pick up the newest equipment that the first stringers had let drop and run with it.

Intel's newest players, the huge hulking Bay Trail Cyborgs each had a little midget installed up on their shoulders, making sure the Bay Trail boy didn't eat too much or get himself overheated.  

But them Bay Trail Cyborg boys sure are really really big and super duper strong, so much so that if their midget didn't keep them reigned in all the time they might actually hurt their batteries and blow their cools.   It kept them little midgets busy all the time, just keeping the lumbering giants from eating too much and getting overheated.

The midgets did such a good job the cyborgs actually couldn't cover ground any faster than the little Chinese guys could.  

(strange, that ...  you'd think the cyborgs would just step on them)

So, first quarter the Intel coaching staff spent time teaching the little midget guys how to control the big hulking cyborgs better --- so, they didn't get a bunch done football-wise, but they actually were out there on the field and the game was officially on.

ARM coaching team had their own issues with their lead quarterback, Samsung.  Samsung was complaining he was given a defective under-inflated ball to try to make the critical pass with (Exynos 5410) and finally ARM listened and got him a properly inflated ball (Exynos 5420) to try to pass, but by then the quarter was almost over and Samsung was pretty much disgusted with the whole passing thing and has since decided he's going to design his own balls for now on.

Meanwhile, ARM coaching staff REALLY REALLY got a lot of gruff from all the supporting alumni and student fans about screwing up the game, so ARM went and rushed out a brand new 64 bit burnished chrome pigskin ball for Samsung to try to pass with.

Samsung doesn't trust the 64 bit rush job on that new ball at all, so they are currently inflation testing the ball very extensively off on the sidelines to make sure it won't lose any air when they go out to actually play with it.    Samsung feels they have been having to redesign all the balls lately anyway, so next time they will do their own ball from scratch so they KNOW it will work correctly.

Meanwhile, the Apple cheerleading team got their little plastic toy dual core 64 bit ball out and were tossing it around a bit on the field during the last time out period, claiming loudly they were the first one to make it to the field with a 64 bit ball (which was true, actually).   Then the whistle blew and the cheerleaders and the band had to leave the field and the real players returned to the epic struggle.

Then suddenly all the Chinese Cheapie guys started saying the 64 bit words enthusiastically and very loudly while they ran around aimlessly pounding on each other's helmets with baseball bats and lacross sticks

(they have a real loose grasp of "football" at best sometimes, them third string boys).


..............   and then Intel coaching pressed a button that stopped all their cyborgs dead in their tracks and froze the midgets yakking jaws temporarily while Intel announced that  NexT Year they were going to have them a set of 64 bit Bay Trail hulking Cyborgs with the midget actually installed inside the Cyborg's head (instead of being a daughter chip on a sub-board).

But secretly Intel has apparently decided to build them some ARM chipsets of their very own for some of their good buddies since they can't seem to get the big hulking cyborgs to move fast enough to keep up with them durn quick little oriental guys.   This way they can compete (through proxies) while keeping face that they are dumb de dumb dum DUMMMMM  .... Intel, the greatest chip company on earth.

All the while, the opposition team that Intel will meet in the next scheduled game, the infamous Qualcomm Kraits, spent time in the stands with their entire team watching Intel and figuring out all their plays ....



So, what was the score at the end of the first quarter?
   
..... well, we don't really know officially as the score is reported a half year in arrears because that is how the system works in this game .....   but it does seem that the Qualcomm Kraits are ahead on first downs and passes completed   Roll Eyes  and they were sitting up in the stands the whole time.




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« Last Edit: 11/25/13 at 03:22:51 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: ARM vs Intel "football" - first quar
Reply #1 - 11/25/13 at 19:31:35
 

The Qualcomm Krait coaching "research team" scoped out a copy of the current Intel playbook showing all of Intel's planned moves for next season.  

Armed with this ?? good information ?? it remains to be seen what sort of moves the other side will actually make in pre-response --- rushed into place 128 bit chipsets have been bandied about as a fix since Intel seems to have a right good plan for hitting the soon to be brand new ARM 64 bit chips square on their 64 bit cod piece with a 5 pound sledge hammer just as soon as Team ARM comes out on the field a wearing them brand new cod pieces.

http://liliputing.com/2013/11/intel-atom-roadmap-64-bit-smartphone-chips-in-2...

Intel Atom roadmap: 64-bit smartphone chips in 2014


Intel is outlining plans for its next-gen chips for smartphones and tablets… as well as the generation after that. Starting in the second half of 2014, Intel plans to start offering 64-bit mobile chips based on 14nm designs and featuring next-gen graphics.   ARM will be at 16-20 nm at that point in time .....

By 2015, Intel plans to move onto an entirely new versatile chip called “Broxton” whcih is designed for easy upgrades and reconfigurations.

Intel Airmont and SoFIA roadmap



Merrifield

In the first half of 2014 we should see next-gen dual-core Atom chips based on the same Silvermont technology currently used in Bay Trail processors.

These 22nm chips will offers up to twice the graphics performance of the company’s current smartphone chips, and up to 1.7 times the overall performance. They’ll be aimed at high-end phones and mid-range tablets.

Moorefield

Why stop at 2 cores when you can have 4? Moorfield is basically a quad-core variant of the 22nm Merrifield chips.

moorefield



SoFIA

While high performance chips tend to grab the headlines, Intel is also making a play for the low-end smartphone space with a new system-on-a-chip code-named SoFIA. It’ll feature integrated 3G capabilities when it launches in late 2014, and by the following Year Intel plans to have a version with built-in support for 4G LTE networks.

Cherry Trail

By the second half of 2014, Silvermont will be old hat and Intel will move onto a new 14nm architecture code-named “Airmont.”

The first Atom chips using this architecture will be code-named Cherry Trail, and they’ll be designed to offer higher performance and lower power consumption than they’re predecessors. The’ll also feature next-gen Intel graphics.

Intel Goldmont



Broxton

By 2015, Intel plans to roll out chips based on a new “Goldmont” architecture. Broxton chips will have a chassis which lets Intel connect other parts, allowing Broxton chips to be changed or customized. This’ll let Intel roll out new variations of the chips for different markets more quickly.

Intel also describes these chips as offering “converged cores” for both phones and tablets,

via PC World, X-bit Labs, and VR Zone



In any case, whacking on folks with baseball bats, lacross sticks, 5 pound sledge hammers --- it isn't NFL football like anything you have ever seen before, now is it?

So far no guns though, so they are still playing "nice" on both sides of the field ....
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Re: ARM vs Intel "football" - first quar
Reply #2 - 11/25/13 at 22:15:44
 
I tried 4 different versions of Linux... over 2 years... (pup, macpup, mint, Ubuntu)...
They all pale in comparison to Windows...
Mounting and unmounting,... WTF?...
... and too many cutesie names for things...  Grin...

...bought a tablet, (just find out what Andriod is all about)...
... and it's nothing but a collection of desktop widgets and bookmarks...  
No more than a mindless toy for bobbleheads...
Grown men playing Angry Birds is just sad... Grin...

Apple is too inflexible... and "intuitive"...
Too many "you can't get there from here"...
Is there such a thing as capitalist socialism?...
for yuppies?... Grin...

... and I'm not a fan of Windows...
I de-Window, and de-crap, all my installs...
... but it does have the most power, options, and flexibility, of anything out there...

Just make a Windows without the badging, and no automation, or animation...
Nevermind... I'll do it myself... Huh...




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Re: ARM vs Intel "football" - first quar
Reply #3 - 11/26/13 at 09:02:56
 

Windows/Microsoft could actually be the first ones to make a concurrent OS that ran from phones to pcs and be "all the same" on all platforms.   They really could do it.   Really, like right now if they wanted to .....

But they don't seem to want to do it right now.   Microsoft is on hold waiting for their new CEO's direction and he hasn't been hired quite yet.

Huh

Of the Windows versions out there, Win 7 seems to be the best appreciated Windows version from those whose deal with Windows in a IT environment.   Most stable, best supported.


==================


Please remember, the terminology in Linux had to be made different back then so that the ugly old time Microsoft didn't have something to sue you over back when they were actively suing Linuxes and SCOs and IBMs over everything -- and yes, them geeks do tend to be cutsie when they go to naming things.    The geeks at my work have named the servers after the planets in the original star wars Trilogy --- my office attaches to the Naboo server, for example.

Mountng and unmounting terminology is older yet, it goes all the way back to 1950s Unix days, so you actually "do it" in the background in all OS products, even Windows.   Mint no longer uses the term but goes with the generic "open" & "close" two click motif (on the Mate desktop, anyway).   That's progress for Linux Mint and they do more of it on the traditional Linux desktop type user interface than anybody else does.  

Except for Ubuntu of course, who has left the planet and lives on a Unity deathstar of their own imagining now-a-days.


======================================


Let's see ----- Serowbot now understands Android 4.1 or .2 fairly well, he understands its limitations as far as anything he would want to do real work on.   And I agree, it isn't.   Android would have to grow up a lot to be a sit down desktop workspace.

Now me, I can live a computer life and do postings with pics and all that stuff on a Linux Mint Mate machine just dandy using an old first generation AMD Athlon 1 ghz processor machine.  I gots plenty of power and quick and all that stuff on a processor that isn't much at all by today's processor standards.   And that is kudos to Linux being light and quick compared to any modern Windows.   The interface is fine and it uses every piece of an old desktop computer in the way you expect it to, including tapping the sleep button on my old keyboard.

A modern Windows and Explorer would bring the old white box to its knees in quick fashion -- I see it everyday at work because some of the music labs have Windows machines not much more modern than my old white box in them and they CHOKE DOWN on the current Explorer, right painfully they do.


=================================


So, what is the future to be?   It is coming within the next few years, so we might as well get some pre-thoughts together.

First, America's future will not be the same as the Orient's future.   America has already become sort of irrelevant to the oriental folks and since they are driving the cart now and they do love to compete with each other more so than holding to any "standards" or "OS requirements" or anything else pretty much.   They compete up to the point of sale, and once the product is sold they don't let anything like past compatibility slow them down for much either for what they do next.  

They ARE going to have competing OSs inside competing products and as such are doomed to be what they are right now, a bunch of quick little guys hopping around the football field bashing each other in the helmet with baseball bats and lacross sticks.

Intel is going to get better --- They will make relatively more powerful processors and throttle them back to get decent battery life as that is the path they are taking right now.

Can they get cost competitive doing this?    Not yet.  At Walmart they are selling an $89 new built Black Friday special, a 1 ghz single chip Intel processor in a 7" tablet made by HP that has a gig of systems memory and 8 gigs of flash and that single core processor (the most modern type that Intel has) will drain the battery totally inside 5 hours of use.  

This is not competitive battery life at all (which is why it went from the assembly line directly to a Black Friday Special).

It runs Android OS at that price point, since a copy of Windows would just about double the cost of the tablet by itself.

At the same price point Walmart is selling ARM based 7" units are swinging dual core ARM processors with better specs on the same android OS that get 10-12 hours of run time and actually give you a solid 8+ hours in real daily use no matter what you do with them.

So no, Intel isn't there yet at the low end really at all.   And MS isn't even in the low end picture, period.

Go up to the middle to the very top end, and Intel will be in there, competing.   Perhaps not with MS's OS on it as MS adds a cost penalty that is greater than the total profit margins for those middle ground products.  

Intel is one of the creator/supporters of Tizen, along with Samsung.   Tizen is coming out of the gate fairly well polished and with a starting purpose statement that includes phones, tablets and laptops.

Since Intel is a creator/backer, Tizen has baked into it the full set of Intel support structure.   I look for good things from Tizen as Intel will keep it "backwards compatible" with Intel chips and Samsung will keep it state of the art in ARM as that state rolls forward and begins to fragment.

And ARM/Android is going to fragment.   Google is doomed to lose control of it as they simply won't roll it forward into a full OS product.

The ARM basic "hard macro" designs are quickly becoming the purview of the Chinese Cheapie Guys as one by one the old-school chip players have begun to roll their own versions of ARM starting now.

This list of "roll our own ARM chip designs, thank you very much" group now includes AMD, IBM, Caldera, Texas Instruments, Freescale, Microsoft/Nokia, Intel/Altera, and Samsung.

Of these build their own ARM chipsets, the group also includes "roll our own OS" groups as well.   Tizen group includes IBM, Freescale, Intel and Samsung.   Android/Chrome group includes Google/Motorola and all the Chinese Cheapie Guys.

The game will change for the Chinese Cheapie Guys when the Chinese government steps in and states what the standards in China shall be, as they just did in the PC desktop side of things just recently.   This will be avoided for as long as possible, but look for the Chinese government to state requirements that suit their needs eventually.

China likes open OSs .....   they feel they can do business with Ubuntu out of South Africa and they would generally tend to support those open OSs that originate in China in particular as they can put their thumbs on them.

Google is the pivot point for Android right now, but that is changing as we speak -- Google refuses to finish a full OS out of Android and some Chinese Cheapie Guys are currently doing it for them anyway (Rockchip, for example).

Watch Rockchip -- they hold a designed by themselves "cheapie world" leading RK3188 quad core ARM chipset and a designed by themselves (android based) near desktop OS right now.   So, the Chinese government preference would likely go over to them and they are right there under the Chinese thumb to be supported and controlled.

China's Miltiary has just sold the ghost of MIPS off, by the way, to Imagination, the VR graphics people.   Why, you ask?   I guess they are done with it, having sucked all the juice out of the EMP hardened MIPS designs the USA military paid for back in the day.   Nobody likes Imaginations VR graphics for much lately, so Imagination is going to do a Google and make up their own MIPS based OS that uses their VR graphics stuff (gots them a prebuilt customer base in China, they do).

Grin

How will it really roll out in the next two years?    Who knows ......


...... all we do know is that more people will start computing in the next two years than the total of ALL the people who have ever computed in all the years before.

And anybody who is really popular during this critical massive expansion period will own a significant slice of the future world of computing, no matter what they did (or did not do) in the last 30 years of computing.


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« Last Edit: 11/26/13 at 17:10:49 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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