SuzukiSavage.com - Power outage. Main fuse blowing

justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Power outage. Main fuse blowing Reply #30 - 10/31/13 at 05:58:43 Resistors arent magic, bulbs measure zero ohms, go read one. I went to school in Biloxi for 9 months.,I didnt like it, I wasnt good at it, but Ive got enough sense to know I can draw more current thru a bulb than the filament will take,
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swedishbiker Full Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 119 Växjö Sweden Gender:	Re: Power outage. Main fuse blowing Reply #31 - 10/31/13 at 06:09:34 How?
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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Power outage. Main fuse blowing Reply #32 - 10/31/13 at 06:24:36 Go read a bulbs ohms, its zero,,pull more current thru it than it can take & it blows, like a fuse, like a flash bulb, heck, prove it to yourself, pull the wire offa the starter, put a bulb in series & hit the start button. Itll pop like a flash bulb,
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swedishbiker

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Re: Power outage. Main fuse blowing
Reply #33 - 10/31/13 at 06:55:47

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 10/31/13 at 06:24:36:

Go read a bulbs ohms, its zero,,pull more current thru it than it can take & it blows, like a fuse, like a flash bulb, heck, prove it to yourself, pull the wire offa the starter, put a bulb in series & hit the start button. Itll pop like a flash bulb,

a light bulb is not zero ohm, if it was it would not glow.
You should try with a better ohm meter.

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Re: Power outage. Main fuse blowing
Reply #34 - 10/31/13 at 07:31:12

The two equations we need to calcuate what is going to happen are:

P = V x I.......Power (watts) = Voltage x Current
R = V/I.........Resistance (ohms) = Voltage / Current

So for a 65 watt, 12 volt bulb connected to a 12v Battery.

P = V x I......P/V = I 65 watt/12v = 5.42 amps
R = V/I.........12 volts/5.42 amps = 2.21 ohms

I am not sure what the starter capacity is......but for this example lets assume the starter is 100 amp capacity.

R=V/I......12volts / 100 amps = 0.12 ohms.

So if we wire the 12v battery in a loop that includes the 65 watt bulb(2.21 ohms) with the 100 amp starter (0.12 ohms)....the circuit will provide a total of 2.33 ohms of resistance.

R=V/I....IR=V.....I=V/R......I = 12 volts/2.33 ohms = 5.15 amps

Therefore adding the starter into the circuit has decreased the current flowing through the light by (5.42 - 5.15 =) 0.27 amps.

The voltage across the light and stationary starter are:
R=V/I....V=IR.....

Light = 5.15 amps x 2.21 ohms = 11.38 volts
Starter = 5.15 amps x 0.12 ohms = 0.62 volts
Total 12.00 volts

The above example may be a bit flawed in that a 100 amp starter that is stationary may not have the same resistance that it does when operating.......but the math shows that the light will not blow up regardless. Anything that is wired in series with the light bulb will provide more resistance in the circuit, will reduce the amperage, and will reduce the voltage and current running through the light bulb.

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Power outage. Main fuse blowing Reply #35 - 10/31/13 at 07:59:42 Well,, Youve got the numbers. Ive just got a gut feeling.. I had no idea an 1156 was a 65 watt bulb,, I wasnt talking headlight, I still think she'll blow a bulb up,,I just cant fathom drawing enough current thru that little filament to spin the starter & not cookin it,,
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Re: Power outage. Main fuse blowing
Reply #36 - 10/31/13 at 08:05:54

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 10/31/13 at 07:59:42:

Well,, Youve got the numbers. Ive just got a gut feeling.. I had no idea an 1156 was a 65 watt bulb,, I wasnt talking headlight, I still think she'll blow a bulb up,,I just cant fathom drawing enough current thru that little filament to spin the starter & not cookin it,,

An 1156 bulb is not 65 watt....more like 23 watts I believe. I used the 65 watt headlight bulb as the largest reasonable bulb to get as much current flowing as possible. Using a 1156 bulb would have made a smaller current and actually made less voltage across the starter.

The starter will not spin......the light bulb is limiting the current flow and will not allow enough current to flow through the circuit. The starter is only getting 0.62 volts across it......it won't do anything with that small of voltage.

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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28884 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Power outage. Main fuse blowing Reply #37 - 10/31/13 at 08:39:23 A starter motor is not an electron pump. You can't pull more current thru the bulb than the battery can do by itself. besides resistance thru the starter motor, there's also impedance due to the coils.
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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Power outage. Main fuse blowing Reply #38 - 10/31/13 at 09:08:53 Well,, I dont have a bike to play with, but I do have a mower,, Im gonna try it, Im bettin even that puny little motor will draw more current than a bulb alone,, else why would such fat wires be needed for a starter? Starter wires a a good bit bigger than the wires to an 1156..
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Re: Power outage. Main fuse blowing
Reply #39 - 10/31/13 at 09:15:11

Not sure how the subject got askew, but...

Isn't there a voltage regulator in the system? doesn't it regulate voltage for lower amped (wattage) items? hince smaller wires to different items.

If his fuse is blowing, it means more than 15amps is going across it in the wire circuit, meaning I believe, there is a short from a higher amped item to a lower amped item on the 15amp fuse circuit.

The thing is to find out were the short or arc is coming from. Is it coming from 2 or 3 wires crossing totaling more than 15amps? or is it coming from one wire crossing another totaling more than 15amps.

Is there a wire bundle under the tank that can cause this? I'm looking at the cd that was put online but its a long process trying to find what is what for me.

Just trying to help the OP, not in it for a discussion on electronics or confusing him on the subject... sorry don't mean to sound "short" Grin

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Re: Power outage. Main fuse blowing
Reply #40 - 10/31/13 at 09:27:04

Old Rider: We got off track when discussing the use of a small light bulb in place of the fuse when testing. I believe the light will glow dimly most of the time.....but a dead short will make it glow at the normal amount of light.

The Rectifier under the seat converts the AC current from the stator into DC power, and regulates the voltage to the proper 13.5 - 15 volts...or whatever is in the acceptable range. The fuses only regulate the maximum flow through the circuit and don't do anything during normal operation except allow the current to flow through them. If there is some form of excess current overload....then the fuse blows.

The wiring harness under the tank connects to the left and right handlebar electrical controls, to the coil, to the decompression solenoid, to the horn, to the speedometer cluster, to the horn, headlights, front turn signals......lots of stuff. The most common break in this area is the left handlebar wiring harness into the headlight, and often it is associated with the failure of the headlight low or high beam.....or a short that blows fuses.

The OP really needs to take the tank off and start looking at wires.

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old_rider Serious Thumper Offline Backyard Bill Productions Posts: 3147 flordia panhandle Gender:	Re: Power outage. Main fuse blowing Reply #41 - 10/31/13 at 09:38:04 Thanks Dave.... um, you said "horn" at one point in your statement, it reminds me I have to replace the horns on my pickup. At current time it sounds like herby the love bug, my wife laughs everytime she hears it.....
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Re: Power outage. Main fuse blowing
Reply #42 - 10/31/13 at 10:12:30

I put the Hella Supertone horns on my Pontiac Vibe....and they work like a horn should work.....they get attention.

Be sure you are getting the Hella models.....there are look alike horns that may/may not work like the original ones. The fakes say "Supertone" but do not say Hella.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hella-003399801-Supertone-Horn-Kit-12V-High-Tone-and-...

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justin_o_guy2

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Re: Power outage. Main fuse blowing
Reply #43 - 10/31/13 at 10:47:59

Welll,, heres the deal,, I suspected I was wr, wro,, wr,, incorrect when I got all the ohms law stuff handed to me,, & LO & Behold,, the starter wont turn over with a 12volt bulb in series!
Like I said, I went to school in Biloxi for 9 months being Taught electronics,, &, as stated, I Wasnt very good at it.. In fact, I barely avoided getting dumped into food services ( that was the threat they used to keep us motivated). I was sent to a base where there was NO equipment for me to work on,, I wasnt alone,, there was a staff sgt there, too.. same MOS, Nav Aids repair,, I was supposed to maintain Instrument Landing systems, vortacs, tacans & beacons,, but never touched one after tech school.. I learned enough to make a good copier & cash register repair guy some years later..

I DID absolutely ace the mechanics end of the entrance exam,, but they demanded I go into electronics, even tho I made the lowest score possible to qualify for that school.. Ohh MAN I wish they had made me a mechanic instead.. I think my military carreer woulda worked out a lot better & the jobs after woulda been much better..

Anyway,, after the starter wouldnt turn with the bulb in series, I decided that the bulb was dropping the Voltage enough it wouldnt kick the solenoid. I have a battery cut off on it ( somehow it drains the battery if itis not isolated, even w/ the key off,, &, Im Prittee sure its not the security sytem doin it!
So, I got the bulb all in line ( parallel) & got the starter crankin over, unscrewed the cut out & expected the motor to draw thru & blow it,, UHHH, NO,, So,, While Ive discovered you guys are correct, I am sad to report I STILL dont "Get it"..& I imagine that some of you could stand here & explain it till I do, I just dont think Im gonna be able to get it if its just typed out..
If someone wants to give it a shot, I would welcome understanding it,I just dont wanna waste anyones time,,

I am glad & thankful no one has gotten Uglee in the discussion thus far,,
Saved me a good bit of embarrassment, fo SHO!

& I was just soooo sure,, dangitt!

Thanks for your patience guys,,
I "get" loads of straight up nuts & bolts stuff,, but electrons & the rules they play by just arent my friends..

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Re: Power outage. Main fuse blowing
Reply #44 - 10/31/13 at 10:50:42

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 10/31/13 at 09:08:53:

Well,, I dont have a bike to play with, but I do have a mower,, Im gonna try it, Im bettin even that puny little motor will draw more current than a bulb alone,, else why would such fat wires be needed for a starter? Starter wires a a good bit bigger than the wires to an 1156..

Do that, you will be surprised.
Alone the starter draw a lot of power, thats why the fat wire. But with the bulb i serial it limits the current and no need for at fat wire

but the starter will not turn.
The only way you can draw more current is if you have the bulb parallel with the starter.

So with the bulb instead of the fuse, he can't burn anything. And will see a short if the bulb lights up. Sure, he can't ride the bike, it would not start

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