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Engine performance issues (Read 139 times)
Sailorgirl
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Engine performance issues
09/19/13 at 06:29:29
 
I have a '96 savage with 13,600miles that I got a few months ago. I have been having occasional issues with the bike stalling out while idling or coasting near the beginning of my commute, always when the weather is a few degrees cooler and especially if the humidity is up. I've had the issue more frequently since I moved 500 fit closer to sea level to a town with 50-80% humidity vs. bone dry where I used to live. Yesterday I added a bit more oil to the engine, as it had a slight leak (from the oil plug, I thought, but I took it in and no more drops of oil under my bike) and was a little low. I had a really rough time getting it to stay started (it was probably about 50F out, had to throttle up several times to keep it going until it warmed up). And then on my way home had the sputtering/stalling issue, and I was a bit low on gas.  However, when I got home, I noticed that the exhaust was glowing orange! I've never seen it do that before! So I'm not sure if I've never noticed, or if something changed...I also have been noticing that the top speed and power are a little off lately, and that I'm now getting the post-shutoff "fart".

History on bike: bought it in June with 13k on it, it was running great except for the small oil leak that was fixed and needing a little throttle at startup to keep it going. Has a straight pipe exhaust but no other modifications that I can see. Haven't opened up the carb to see if the jets were changed for the new pipe. I adjusted the idle screw and took care of the startup issue. After taking it in to have the oil leak checked out, it died before I could get it out of the parking lot. I'm guessing the fuel lines/vacuum system didn't get put back together correctly. Only stalled out on me once or twice in the hot/dry/higher altitude climate, always right before/after rain, so the humidity must have been up and it was a bit cooler than normal. Having the issue more frequently in the cooler/more humid area, but 500 ft closer to sea level. Didn't have any issues until the mornings and evenings started to get cooler. I've been adjusting the idle screw to help with the stalling issue, but it didn't help much yesterday, and I'm guessing that having it up too high might have made the exhaust pipe hot...also, my ex helped me move up to my new home and drove the moving truck with the motorcycles, and he has a bad habit of skipping over curbs at right turns, so it might have gotten a few bumps along the way...and was covered in the dirt of the southwest when it got here! Bike has never left me stranded, at worst only needed a few minutes before it could be started back up again.

Any advice or ideas? Should I not be riding it if the exhaust is getting hot and it's stalling out? Anything I might be able to fix myself?
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Dave
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Re: Engine performance issues
Reply #1 - 09/19/13 at 06:46:25
 
Is there any kind of baffling in your straight pipe?  Is your air cleaner stock? Where do you live that it is already 50 degrees?

Doesn't sound like anything a good carb cleaning wouldn't fix.....and you might get a jet kit so that you could make a change or two while you have the carb apart.
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Sailorgirl
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Re: Engine performance issues
Reply #2 - 09/19/13 at 07:16:03
 
Not any baffling, I don't think. Bike is nice and loud. I'm up in the mountains at 4500ft (previously 5kft), thus the cooler temp and temperature swings (high was about 78 yesterday). I have no idea about the air filters, probably stock, though. Thinking I might need a new one after all the dust from the move...

I was already planning on the carb cleaning, but hoping to wait until winter got going (wasn't planning on riding in ice and snow...). *sigh* any suggestions on jet sizes for the straight pipe or tips for cleaning the carb?

Probably also should have mentioned that I'm pretty sure the bike sat for a while before I bought it, but it doesn't look like there is any deterioration in the gas tank, so I don't think I have gunk in there.  Looks like the bike was dropped once before, too, but nothing major, just a few scrapes on one side.
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Re: Engine performance issues
Reply #3 - 09/19/13 at 07:43:09
 
Sailorgirl wrote on 09/19/13 at 07:16:03:
Not any baffling, I don't think. Bike is nice and loud. I'm up in the mountains at 4500ft (previously 5kft), thus the cooler temp and temperature swings (high was about 78 yesterday). I have no idea about the air filters, probably stock, though. Thinking I might need a new one after all the dust from the move...

I was already planning on the carb cleaning, but hoping to wait until winter got going (wasn't planning on riding in ice and snow...). *sigh* any suggestions on jet sizes for the straight pipe or tips for cleaning the carb?

Probably also should have mentioned that I'm pretty sure the bike sat for a while before I bought it, but it doesn't look like there is any deterioration in the gas tank, so I don't think I have gunk in there.  Looks like the bike was dropped once before, too, but nothing major, just a few scrapes on one side.


The straight pipe is too loud.  The world gets pissed off at all motorcyclists when the straight-pipe bikers make too much noise.  Statements like "Bike is nice and loud" annoy me.  Do the motorcycling community a favor, make it quieter.  You'll get better performance, anyway,.. read on.

The straight pipe makes less usable horsepower than a more reasonably sounding exhaust system.  For racing purposes, a straight pipe can make more horsepower because the motor can be tuned for a narrow band of rpm.  You don't want that.  The LS650 motor's innards and carb are set up for a wide powerband, so you need an exhaust system with a moderate amount of backpressure in it to match the rest of the motor.  

Either put some baffles in the pipe, or make a muffler, or buy a muffler.  You'll go faster and the world will like you better.


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Re: Engine performance issues
Reply #4 - 09/19/13 at 08:05:43
 
I just looked for the video where a dealer tried several different mufflers and jetting on a Dyno....and proved that straight pipes (drag pipes) cause a drop in horsepower at certain rpms....and even rejetting can not get all of it back.  The open pipes allow pressure waves to distrupt the exhaust flow.

For our Savage, the used Harley DYNA mufflers are the lowest cost, most reasonable noise and offer good engine performance.  The important thing is to get a muffler with some form of baffling....not just straight through.

Jetting changes on each bike and where you live.  The #50 pilot, #150 main and 2 washers worked best for me.  Anything bigger than a # 52.5 pilot and # 152.5 main is normally not required, and most people use 3 washers instead of the white spacer that is stock.  The Tech Section has several threads on jetting.....and if yo read through old threads you can find discussions on jetting for straight and drag pipes.

Me.....I don't like loud bikes, cars or trucks.  I live in the county 2 miles from a 4 lane highway, and my peaceful country home is plagued by the sound of the "loud muffler" crowd on that highway.
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OK.... so what's the
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Re: Engine performance issues
Reply #5 - 09/19/13 at 08:29:32
 
Keep your idle speed up (knurled knob on left side near choke)...
This ain't a Harely... it won't get enough oil pressure if you have the idle at a loping burble... increase it to a smooth purrr... (this may fix your stalling problem, and it is needed for good oil pressure)...
+1... about the open pipe... this is a wide band torque engine, not a revver... an open pipe will narrow that powerband and make the bike feel like a 2-stroke...
Dropping 500ft in elevation made it worse... it made you leaner overall...
I'd recommend raising the idle some,... and getting a stock Harley shorty muffler... you'll be surprised at the difference...
Wink...
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Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
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Sailorgirl
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Re: Engine performance issues
Reply #6 - 09/19/13 at 12:48:50
 
Already tried adjusting idle, which is no longer helping the issue. Tried to start it again this morning (37F outside) and started fine but began to die again. Tried to keep it going using the throttle, but got gas coming out of what looks like the overflow on the bowl for the carb (left my manual at home today, see the attached pic).

I guess I'll try re-jetting and cleaning the carb  Sad
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Dave
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Re: Engine performance issues
Reply #7 - 09/19/13 at 12:57:51
 
That tube is a vent and should be directed up over the carb toward the frotn of the bike...where it ends under the tank.  Regardless...there should not be any fuel leaking out of that vent.  If there is....the fuel level is too high for some reason.
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OK.... so what's the
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Re: Engine performance issues
Reply #8 - 09/19/13 at 14:30:01
 
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Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
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