justin_o_guy2 wrote on 09/04/13 at 07:16:29:

I spent 35 years as a Field Warranty Rep. and Team Driver for Mercury Marine (Ran in most for the Sport and Family classes, ModVP and when they had OZ, also Formula 1 and Mod classes. I love 2 cycle as I raced with it my whole career. But you guys are on land, I was on water...

So I understand 4 cycle and 2 cycle engines. Since I had started 1968, we had 99cc 125 BP Stacker. Engine had exhaust plate removed and 3 - 24-30" chrome stacks, some had water injection to cool. As we were running AVgas or at that time Nascar Fuel... Exhaust got pretty hot... Was not uncommon if testing and running when it was getting dusk    to see blue flames firing from the Headers as you held it at WOT.

Loved the smell and the crackle of the exhaust! (Avgas & 2T oil...)

We certainly have some , well,, different people who ride these bikes.

Got an astronaut in Denver & a boatracer,, & all kinds of build it, make it work types.

I bounced around

USAF, Biloxi Miss 9 months, electronics, Navigational aids repairman
Stunk at electronics,, sent to a base with NO equipment! HUng out in radio repair doing mechanical alignments on some BIG transmitters.
2men to move the radio, 2 to move the power supply.

Roughneck, body man, some time in a machine shop, ran a warehouse, fixed copiers/cash registers/fax machines/calculators for 7 years
plugged & abandoned oil wellsfor a coupla years, was the mechanic there & did body work & knew how to repair triplex & centrifugal pumps from being a mechanic at The Western Company,.drove the trucks, 18 wheelers/80,000 pound stuff..
AF training made the copier/register job work out.. W/O that training I never woulda got that job,, & that was the best job I had.
Thank you Air Force.
I Aced the mechanics part of the entrance exam, made the lowest score (80) on electronics that would allow me to even be trained in electronics..But they wouldnt let me be a mechanic!
Learned to handle explosives plugging wells.Gotta shoot the casing off down hole..I can drive forklifts & we have a back hoe, Im  decent with it

PS
I dropped outta high school. AF policy was to nottake dropouts. I bugged the recruiter till he took me to take the entrance exam.,.I scored in the top 10%. He couldnt believe it,,

Please pardon the run together words, my spacebar is not working right.

You know, peoples work history can be pretty interesting,
I knew a guy in MIdland who worked for Centrilift, an oilfiled company, specializing in downhole pumps & controllers. He worked summers while in High School. Graduated, went full time & Never worked for anyone else. One employer! They thot somuch of him they sent him on a special assignment to Siberia. They sent him to Houston to be measured, then they shipped him a load of fur lined, extreme cold weather gear, tailor made for him. A year or so later they sent him to a One Man shop located a coupla miles from a lake, IDK if he is still there,but he said he would quit instead of accept another location. Working alone suits him & IDK anyone who doesnt like living where their front yard drops off from grass to water.

Ima start a new thread,,.

Theres a sound from a cartoon that comes to mind.. Its the one used when the goofy guy gets hit in the head..I heard it while reading that post,, not that the post is silly or anything, just stretched my brain out & when it snapped back, everything went all wobbly,,

If you want the basic physics - Every time a conductor (the turn of wire in the coil) cuts a magnetic line of flux, an electromotive force (EMF) is generated. EMF is measured in volts. If there are more turns in series, more voltage is generated. So, more turns on the coil gives more voltage. If there are more flux lines (the magnetic field is stronger) more voltage is generated, since the coil cuts more lines. If the speed of the coil is increased it cuts more lines per unit time, so more voltage. This voltage is always alternating, even in so-called DC generators. The DC generator simply uses mechanical switching in the form of its commutator and brushes to rectify the AC into DC.

The magnetic field can be supplied by permanent magnets, the way most motorcycles do it. Or it can be supplied by electromagnets, the way is it usually done in automotive alternators. The magnetic field cannot be controlled using permanent magnets, so excess power is "wasted" in motorcycles. This is also why they are designed to produce only the amount of power needed. Electromagnets as in automotive alternators are controlled by the voltage regulator so as to make the alternator produce only what is needed. The complication is the need for brushes and slip rings to get the current into the electromagnets in the armature.

You probably don't want to know it, but these physics are why electric guitars tend to sound "twangy." The higher notes are produced by strings vibrating faster, thus cutting more of the magnetic lines from the pickup, thus generating higher voltage on higher notes.

Steve H wrote on 09/05/13 at 13:47:27:

Thanks!
I will try to answer each section you wrote here:

There are several considerations when winding 3phase and deciding what you want to get out of it.  Do you wind wye or delta? You wound wye from some of your following posts.

Yes I wound Wye

When you rectify single phase, you get 1.44 times the AC voltage as DC.  When you rectify 3phase, you get 1.73 times AC voltage. The difference is due, from what i've read to the waves crossing at higher potential instead of at zero potential.

You said you scrapped the lighting circuit.  So, you never measured the output from it?

I couldn't as coil was smoked (I had forgot to clip the AC Feed to the lights... when I added lighting circuit to DCV... actually I couldn't find it so I had to open Harness and locate

Remember the output is AC until after the rectifier.
It appears you were using the shorter of the two windings to obtain charging voltage.

The longer feed was attached to white/red stripe which was lighting circuit 40.5' from here it attached to yellow lead 23' (Charging) I ws under the impression that charging it uses the combined lengths
WRONG?

You added almost a third more wire per winding (nearly 1/3 more voltage out) and went to 3phase.

I ended up doing coil wraps side35'/by35'/side35' with 1/16th wall plastic between. I did alternate directions of wraps. Starting the same direction as original wrap. But I also went to 18ga wire instead of 20ga.

You have higher voltage because you are rectifying 3phase instead of single phase and because of more turns on the coil form.

I was also told that the 7 wire Suzuki R/R ws way more then I needed as I was dealing with 4 magnets in Rotor (4 pole). So not to worry about creating to much of anything and smokin the R/R.

Here's a little more information.  Took it from an explanation of building alternators for wind turbines.

The flux is the amount of magnetic field that fits inside a closed loop.  You don't need to know a number or measurement of flux directly, but I'll add that it is measured in "Webers" (named after Max Weber who studied it).  All we need is the electro-motive force that can be generated.  We measure EMF with our multi-meters as a voltage, but ONLY when no current flows.

The formula you need:

EMF = N*F*f*2       Where:

  N = Number of turns in the coil
  F = the maximum Flux in the coil
  f  = frequency of change of polarity N-S

In the alternator, the poles pass N to S and N and so on.  One cycle N-S-N will flip the field direction, and hence the flux from N to S to N, and the EMF makes a sine wave.  Since the flux at the N pole was reduced to zero, then reversed to S, the total flux reversal is twice the amount Flux on one pole.  Each magnet is a pole, and most of these alternators have a dozen or so magnet poles.  Also, with increasing speed, the flux flips faster, and that makes much more EMF.

The other factor in the equation is N number of turns of wire.  Adding turns of wire increases the EMF (and open-circuit voltage)

Hey everyone, First let me appologize! I know this is not a Suzuki 650/S40... But it is a Younger (Smaller Brother) Here I had to work this what we had.. Unless you has a Zillion Dollars to spend on Importing a Bigger Machine... you were stuck with what was here. I bet my 65 1/2" wheel base make it bigger...

So If you nominate Me to be an Honorary Member... Suzuki sent me some small chrome (ABOUT AN INCH HIGH) Badges the say "Suzuki" I believe they were from Auto line...

Also to the Professor out there who did such a wonderfull explaination... Yes I did understand every word! Wasn'rt so much differen't from the 2 Cyle Outboards I raced for 35 years  

Thanks again!
David

A true 3phase will look something like this graphic.  You will note that the waves cross about 1/3 of the way up and down from center.  This is where the 1.73 instead of 1.44 comes from when you rectify 3phase.  The wave crossings are at potential instead of zero.

You should be getting roughly 3 times the wattage that you would with a single winding.  The additional voltage, I would have to say, is coming from the extra length of the coils since your waves are still crossing at 0 potential.

Did you ground the 3 ends that are together? If they are floating, you probably have two windings that are essentially in series when generating giving you double the voltage and one winding that is cancelling out against the other two.  If they are grounded, you should have essentially 3 single phases all working together to provide additional amperage at the voltage of any single coil.

I hope I'm making some sense here.  If anyone sees any flaw in what I am saying, please feel free to jump in and issue corrections.