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Crappy roads.... (Read 69 times)
terpfan1980
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Crappy roads....
08/16/13 at 14:09:15
 
There was some discussion in another area of this site about roads and the quality of the road surface (it was, I think, related to the use of brakes).

After a ride home yesterday on a road that I don't travel that often, in a car (or my mini-van) or on a bike, I was again reminded that there are many road surfaces that need serious amount of upkeep and attention that they just haven't gotten.

I've come to the conclusion that all politicians and bureaucrats that are involved in or should be involved in roads maintenance should be *forced* to ride an LS650/S40 across all of the roads that are under their authority/control at least several times per week, if not ever stinkin' day.  Perhaps then they'd get back to their offices and order up some repaving operations and other maintenance that might make the road surfaces we all ride on a bit nicer to use Wink
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justin_o_guy2
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What happened?

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Re: Crappy roads....
Reply #1 - 08/16/13 at 14:10:51
 
You CAN complain to the road & bridge people. Go look where the rich folks in your county live, see the roads There?
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Serowbot
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OK.... so what's the
speed of dark?

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Re: Crappy roads....
Reply #2 - 08/16/13 at 15:59:36
 
During the housing boom,.. Arizona shifted all the road maintenance money to building new roads... that was a bad idea...
Now the roads a pretty much irreparable.. and need to be completely redone...
We dug us hole... Huh...
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Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
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Charon
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Re: Crappy roads....
Reply #3 - 08/17/13 at 04:59:04
 
People like to complain about how bad the roads have become, and blame politicians at every level for it. But people don't particularly like to pay higher taxes, and complain vociferously whenever they are raised.

Roads are largely paid for by fuel taxes. The current generation of more fuel-efficient vehicles has cut fuel consumption, which was the whole idea. That cuts fuel tax revenue, but of course the cost of road repairs has gone up along with the general increase of prices for almost everything (really caused by the drop in the value of money). It is tough to raise fuel taxes because of the popular uproar.

Real estate along paved roads is usually assessed at higher value. That means higher property tax. Property owners don't like that very much. But they like to gripe about the chuckholes in that pavement.

Our local village has some pretty terrible roads. Every time they try to set up a Pavement Improvement District, property owners rise up in droves to oppose it, because the properties in that district are assessed a levy to help pay for the pavement.

In short - all of us would like better roads, but none of us want to pay for them.
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Eschew obfuscation.

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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Crappy roads....
Reply #4 - 08/17/13 at 05:07:50
 
I live in Upshur county, South of us, about 2 miles, it changes to Gregg county. A blind man can tell when the road changes. Upshur is small, nut the roads thru the wealthy peoples houses out here, in the boonies are much nicer than the roads around the lesser valued homes.

Ive heard about how so much more MPG on average is shutting down sales, but Id lean more toward unemployment & lack of jobs to commute to cutting into gas sales.
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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terpfan1980
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Re: Crappy roads....
Reply #5 - 08/17/13 at 10:50:18
 
Charon wrote on 08/17/13 at 04:59:04:
People like to complain about how bad the roads have become, and blame politicians at every level for it. But people don't particularly like to pay higher taxes, and complain vociferously whenever they are raised.

Roads are largely paid for by fuel taxes. The current generation of more fuel-efficient vehicles has cut fuel consumption, which was the whole idea. That cuts fuel tax revenue, but of course the cost of road repairs has gone up along with the general increase of prices for almost everything (really caused by the drop in the value of money). It is tough to raise fuel taxes because of the popular uproar.

Real estate along paved roads is usually assessed at higher value. That means higher property tax. Property owners don't like that very much. But they like to gripe about the chuckholes in that pavement.

Our local village has some pretty terrible roads. Every time they try to set up a Pavement Improvement District, property owners rise up in droves to oppose it, because the properties in that district are assessed a levy to help pay for the pavement.

In short - all of us would like better roads, but none of us want to pay for them.

I have argued (in other places, with friends and others) for raising gasoline taxes and/or indexing them to help adjust for inflation and for increased fuel efficiency, so it isn't like I'm not willing to pay my share or get others to pay theirs.

The disappointing thing is that in my area we've raised gasoline taxes (a relatively reasonable amount, though certainly it was a jolt when first enacted because it was such an increase after having gone years without having raised it at all) and we've raised toll fees some pretty outrageous amounts relative to what they were.  The toll increases were pretty unjustified, at least at the levels they were raised, after having raised the gasoline taxes.

But... just as quickly as I say I am good with raising taxes, I'm incredibly irritated with the idea of doing so because I've also seen time and again where politicians have taken money that was promised to be spent on roads (or schools, or any other designated area) and instead shifted that money around to other pet projects or items that were far more want than need.  I understand building new schools or expanding schools to adjust for more students being in enrolled, and I understand building new roads as needed for new housing developments and such, but once built any hope of maintenance is pretty much out the window because the government types can't seem to find the money that was absolutely designated to go into transportation infrastructure.

In the case of roads for new housing, there are fees levied on the housing developers and the home owners that are supposed to cover those costs and put aside money that should help cover future costs, then later there are HOA fees and other levies that are also supposed to cover those things, so it isn't like the state and fed governments are on the hook for those costs.  Instead the money keeps getting shifted between wants, ignores needs and leaves us all with crappy roads, partly because in leaving us with those needs the politicians can promise to take care of those needs in exchange for getting our votes.

I'd still, as I said originally, love to subject the people that have let us get into this situation to riding a Savage or S40 on the original seat for about 90 minutes straight over the roads they are responsible for.  Let them enjoy the bumps, potholes, patches applied upon patches, and other deteriorating roadways and they would likely find the political courage to raise the taxes and also stop shuffling the funds around such that the trust funds that are supposed to pay for all of these things are used as promised.
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terpfan1980
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Re: Crappy roads....
Reply #6 - 08/17/13 at 10:59:22
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 08/17/13 at 05:07:50:
I live in Upshur county, South of us, about 2 miles, it changes to Gregg county. A blind man can tell when the road changes. Upshur is small, nut the roads thru the wealthy peoples houses out here, in the boonies are much nicer than the roads around the lesser valued homes.

Ive heard about how so much more MPG on average is shutting down sales, but Id lean more toward unemployment & lack of jobs to commute to cutting into gas sales.

There's certainly those issues too.

I admit, I'm riding a bike somewhat frequently again because (a) I enjoy riding, and (b) because paying for gasoline for driving a Grand Caravan that gets about 17 or 18 MPG (on average) was sucking up more of my income than I liked (by far).  When I ride the bike to work, I use much less fuel, and in turn, I'm paying far less in gasoline taxes which means the politicians have to find another way to pay for the roads that I'm travelling on.  They may do it in another area that my state has gotten somewhat out of hand in, by raising the registration, titling and tag fees, or they might levy special taxes on more fuel efficient vehicles (something that has been considered, but seems to be a non-starter).

Toss in the somewhat lower number of miles being driven thanks to underemployment or unemployment and you certainly have a recipe for not getting the money to spend on roads.  On the other hand, if the politicians and budget people would perhaps write some checks for road maintenance and road building, it might put a lot more people to work.

The same could be said though for the stupid power providers in many areas but that's a different argument for another time.  (If you are wondering, my rant would be that the power generators/providers haven't put the money into keeping their systems up to date as they should, but in their case it is to maximize profits.  They get caught somewhat redhanded when there are bad weather events that destroy the fragile infrastructure and then cost far more to repair than it would have cost to do proper preventative maintenance along the way -- p.m. that would have been done by workers that would have had jobs and would have been investing their incomes back into the economy)
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