SuzukiSavage.com - Starter problem ?

Steve H Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 1223 Spartanburg, SC Gender:	Starter problem ? 07/30/13 at 19:48:39 '87, dyna muffler only mod, almost 24k miles, went to start it tonight and it kicked back. Since kicking back, i've got noise from the starter gears. It still starts fine but makes nasty noises. Does it sound like the gears got messed up?
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Re: Starter problem ?
Reply #1 - 07/30/13 at 20:34:17

Pop the left side case off (tilt bike over a lot and you might not have to drop out the load of oil) and look.

Do it now, before the gears tear themselves up even worse, or get in a bind and crack your steel gear spud off, busting your case boss open and making your engine into junk.

In tech section there is a mod to put an anti-kickback gear into the older bikes -- you can still do this if you haven't munched up the world yet.

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Re: Starter problem ?
Reply #2 - 07/31/13 at 13:31:04

Steve H wrote on 07/30/13 at 19:48:39:

'87, dyna muffler only mod, almost 24k miles, went to start it tonight and it kicked back. Since kicking back, i've got noise from the starter gears. It still starts fine but makes nasty noises.

Does it sound like the gears got messed up?

I hate to say it but yes. Sad

I had to replace mine, Luckily I had a spare engine.

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Steve H Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 1223 Spartanburg, SC Gender:	Re: Starter problem ? Reply #3 - 07/31/13 at 15:10:19 I was afraid that was what I was going to hear. It won't get started again until I get the cover off and see what's up in there. Anybody got a side cover and good inti-kickback gears they want to sell?
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paulmarshall Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 1268 Carterton,New Zealand Gender:	Re: Starter problem ? Reply #4 - 07/31/13 at 15:50:14 You can keep using it. Mine made sounds like gears grinding for a year before I replaced the starter gear.
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Steve H Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 1223 Spartanburg, SC Gender:	Re: Starter problem ? Reply #5 - 07/31/13 at 16:54:56 That's about the type of sounds I get too. No slipping or anything. Just grinding sounds. Did you pull the cover to see what it looked like before you kept running it? What did it look like when you did pull the cover?
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Re: Starter problem ?
Reply #6 - 07/31/13 at 16:58:07

Kinda depends on Just how messed up it is,, not everthing busts the same way,, open it, look around, if you cant find all the bits & pieces, drain oil & fish with a magnet, heck,, Id go fishin anyway,, doesnt take much junk, tiny bits of junk,,thru an oil pump, to skank it up.. Those gears break, the dont hafta break clean,, little tiny bits you may not even notice are missing,, not worth losin an engine 6 months down the road cuz your oil pump was slightly compromised.. Its not like they put out oodles of PSI,,
lose 10% efficiency & see where ya are..

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Re: Starter problem ?
Reply #7 - 07/31/13 at 17:08:18

Steve H wrote on 07/31/13 at 16:54:56:

That's about the type of sounds I get too. No slipping or anything. Just grinding sounds.

Did you pull the cover to see what it looked like before you kept running it? What did it look like when you did pull the cover?

I couldn't visually see anything when I opened it. It was the sound that told me what was wrong.
By all means get it fixed asap.I did leave it too long however it didn't do any damage, not saying it wont.

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Steve H Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 1223 Spartanburg, SC Gender:	Re: Starter problem ? Reply #8 - 08/02/13 at 17:20:41 Ok, Guys, I read the tech thread. Doesn't sound too terrible except that it'll cost $150 or so getting a cover and the gear. And it looks like I have to have a black cover. What's the usual failure point? I haven't pulled off the cover yet.
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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Starter problem ? Reply #9 - 08/03/13 at 00:48:34 I havent been in there, but Ive heard there are washers involved & if you dont get them right the starter wont play
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Steve H

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Re: Starter problem ?
Reply #10 - 08/03/13 at 08:27:21

I pulled the cover last night. Nothing in there looks the slightest bit damaged at all. All gear teeth are perfect. All mounting holes are perfect, no cracks or enlargement. No metal pieces of any kind. Magnet didn't find anything either.

The funny noise, from what I can tell, is coming from the driven gear behind the stator. If you turn it backwards, it makes a funny noise for a few seconds then quietens. I also noticed that this big gear will move side to side about 1.5mm. Is this normal?

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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28884 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Starter problem ? Reply #11 - 08/03/13 at 09:00:59 no not normal check to see if the case isn't cracked
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Steve H Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 1223 Spartanburg, SC Gender:	Re: Starter problem ? Reply #12 - 08/03/13 at 09:45:12 Engine cases looked perfect. I know there's a clutch in this big gear. could the clutch be messed up? This gear bolts to the back of the stator doesn't it? What's involved in getting the stator of to check it?
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Re: Starter problem ?
Reply #13 - 08/03/13 at 13:25:10

Steve H wrote on 08/03/13 at 08:27:21:

I pulled the cover last night. Nothing in there looks the slightest bit damaged at all. All gear teeth are perfect. All mounting holes are perfect, no cracks or enlargement. No metal pieces of any kind. Magnet didn't find anything either.

The funny noise, from what I can tell, is coming from the driven gear behind the stator. If you turn it backwards, it makes a funny noise for a few seconds then quietens. I also noticed that this big gear will move side to side about 1.5mm. Is this normal?

Like I said there was nothing to see. Only a terrible noise. I too could not see any damage to the starter gear but it was damaged.

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Re: Starter problem ?
Reply #14 - 08/04/13 at 08:02:08

Hey PaulMarshall,

did you pull off the magnet wheel and check the driven gear and clutch?

I've got side to side movement on the driven gear and also noises when I rotate the gear backward.

I see the gear rides on needle bearings on the shaft and apparently the clutch rides on the outside cylindrical surface of the inner part of the gear. Wonder if it messed up the needle bearings or the clutch? The engine was turning over then when it kicked back, dead lockup. I let off the starter button soon as it happened. When I hit it again, I had the noise but it started right up.

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