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Alcohol? (Read 248 times)
Boogieman
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Alcohol?
07/22/13 at 07:56:38
 
Is there any way to make my savage run off alcohol? It would probably have to be rubbing alcohol or something, definitely not the drinking kind. It's just that,, well,, I hate gasoline. It's not the price of it, its just dirty.
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Dave
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Re: Alcohol?
Reply #1 - 07/22/13 at 08:18:03
 
It is possible.....but probably not practical.

Here is some good reading on the subject.

http://www.turbofast.com.au/racefuel2.html

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Re: Alcohol?
Reply #2 - 07/22/13 at 08:54:40
 
You must really hate dirt... Grin...
I think alcohol would cost a fortune...
Diesel would be even dirtier...
... I'd check into natural gas...

...or,.. just make sure your bike is tuned good...
The first year I owned my Savage, it had to be emission tested... and it's emission reading was so low, they had to sock the entire muffler to get any reading at all...
This was probably due to them messing around, making me idle for 10+ minutes until the engine was getting hot...

Tuned well, it can run very clean...
Don't try to make your idle real low, or make the bike run lean... that will increase emissions...
Keep the idle up at around 1100rpm,.. and tune the jetting for maximum performance...
Maximum performance = most efficient fuel burning, and least emissions....
In good tune,.. your bike should average about 60mpg...
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Boogieman
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Re: Alcohol?
Reply #3 - 07/22/13 at 09:01:47
 
Hmmm..... This is not turning out to be a fantastic idea. My bike is tuned well now and I put 91 in it, It's just that rubbing alcohol is super clean burning. I'll have to read a little bit more on the link that Dave gave me, But it sounds like "alcohol fuels", Which apparently contains some really nasty stuff, Are used and its not just straight alcohol. I wonder about hydrogen...   actually what would be the difference between putting in 91 or 89 as opposed to 110. There was a 76 down the street from where I used to live that you could buy 110. It was definitely more expensive. but why?
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Re: Alcohol?
Reply #4 - 07/22/13 at 09:11:05
 
An explosive idea??I don't know but perhaps the higher the alcohol percent the more inflammable it might get..of course if you never get into an accident??
Cheesy
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Re: Alcohol?
Reply #5 - 07/22/13 at 09:17:27
 
There is no need to run a higher octane in the engine, and it will not run any cleaner on gasoline with higher than 87 octane.  The higer octane gasoline is needed in higher compression engines to control engine knock..also known as pre-ignition or detonation.  The Savage engine is only 8.5:1 and runs fine on 87 octane.  The higher cost for premium fuels is based on them being more costly to refine.....and the smaller demand.

If you feel guilty about riding around on a primitive bike without pollution controls......put a Dyna Muffler on it that has the Catalytic converter built into the front of the muffler.  That doesn't seem to hurt the performance and it might clean up the emmissions a bit.  
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Boogieman
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Re: Alcohol?
Reply #6 - 07/22/13 at 10:10:56
 
Huh.. no I'm not concerned about pollution. The idea of running a different fuel appeals to me for some reason, however at the moment it sounds like more trouble than it's worth. Thanks for the enlightening conversation brothers.
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Re: Alcohol?
Reply #7 - 07/22/13 at 10:16:42
 
To run on alcohol about all you have to do is change carburetor jetting, going up however much is required to change the mixture from the nominal 12:1 or so for gasoline (theoretically it should be 14.7:1) to about 8:1 for ethanol. But other corrections have to be made to take into account the corrosive effects of alcohols. Alcohols and the water they absorb from the atmosphere can cause corrosion in the steel tank and the alloy/brass carburetor. They can also dissolve plastic and rubber parts such as fuel lines and plastic carburetor floats.

Methanol use is quite common in racing venues, and it is well understood. I haven't looked lately, but I think Formula 1 and Indycars both run on it. A dead giveaway is the water they spray on the fuel filler area as the cars pull out of the pits to wash away and dilute any spilled fuel.

Do not forget that alcohol production has its own pollution problems and energy use.
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Re: Alcohol?
Reply #8 - 07/22/13 at 11:01:59
 
Boogieman wrote on 07/22/13 at 10:10:56:
Huh.. no I'm not concerned about pollution. The idea of running a different fuel appeals to me for some reason, however at the moment it sounds like more trouble than it's worth. Thanks for the enlightening conversation brothers.


When you said that gasoline ran "dirty".....I  thought you meant the engine emissions.  All the gubbermint EPA folks are pushing ethanol on us with a claim that it burns cleaner...and that is what I thought you were trying to do in avoiding the dirty gasoline.

The cheapest most affordable way to get ethanol would be to use E85, which is only suitable for "FLEX FUEL" vehicles.
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Re: Alcohol?
Reply #9 - 07/22/13 at 11:25:54
 
Without a clue on the economics...

Propane
said to be clean burning and prolongs engine life.
quite a few cars run it already so may be more available.
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Boogieman
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Re: Alcohol?
Reply #10 - 07/22/13 at 12:11:13
 
Oh wow serobot, I don't get anywhere near 60 miles to the gallon. I haven't tried to figure it out yet and I probably should but definitely not that many miles to the gallon ,, maybe half that.

Charon: Yeah see I figured it might have something to do with eating away at rubber and Some other stuff inside the carb and whatnot. However it doesn't sound like too many changes need to be made when u put it like that.

Dave: Yeah I wasn't really talking about emissions so much, I just don't like gasoline, it's filthy and oily and nasty. What is E85 exactly, And where would I get and how much does it cost?

Vercy: Yeah I've heard of people running propane and that you get better gas mileage, but it's been explain to me that its only for long freeway trips. I heard its totally guttless, no power at all.

So like Lancer and all them high performance dudes run 87?

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Re: Alcohol?
Reply #11 - 07/22/13 at 12:20:17
 
Energy in a gallon of alcohol is only two-thirds of that contained in a gallon of gasoline. Not something I would do.

Diesel fuel is oily. In comparison unleaded gas is anything but.
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Re: Alcohol?
Reply #12 - 07/22/13 at 12:33:36
 
Dave: Yeah I wasn't really talking about emissions so much, I just don't like gasoline, it's filthy and oily and nasty. What is E85 exactly, And where would I get and how much does it cost?  E85 is available at some gas stations.....and it can only be run in Flex Fuel vehicles that are designed to run it.  Not sure of the cost.....but it gets signficantly less mileage per gallon than gasoline does.  Our Savage is only approved to run the currently used E10 which is pump gas and has a maxiumum of 10% ethanol....you cannot use E15 or E85 in the Savage.


So like Lancer and all them high performance dudes run 87?  I am one of those High Performance dudes.....I have a Wiseco piston that has raised the compression from the stock 8.5/1 to 10/1, a cam, a wilder cam, a different carb, head work, free flowing exhaust and air filter.  I run premium fuel because of my higher compression ratio - there is not need to do that with the stock piston and compression ratio.

My bike gets 54 - 58 mpg even with all the performance changes.
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Boogieman
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Re: Alcohol?
Reply #13 - 07/22/13 at 14:58:43
 
Apache: That's interesting, I didn't know that gasoline has a greater energy value then alcohol does,, I thought it was the other way around. I used to be a truck driver and yes, diesel is nasty! Hate that stuff.

Dave: Oh you're one of them high performance dudes eh? Awesome! You're going to be my "go to" man from now on. Getting this bike with the best thing I've ever done. Tell me, what kind of head work are we talking about? And what constitutes a free-flowing exhaust and air filter?
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Re: Alcohol?
Reply #14 - 07/22/13 at 15:10:40
 
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