SuzukiSavage.com - adjusting valves loosely or midway?

kuri77 Full Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 127 Rancho Santa Margarita, Ca Gender:	adjusting valves loosely or midway? 07/08/13 at 20:33:18 Owners of KLR650s like me are adjusting their valves to the loosest recommended tolerance since they tighten up as the engine wears. Is the same thing recommended for our Savages or are we looking for middle of the loose-to-tight spec range?
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Serowbot YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline OK.... so what's the speed of dark? Posts: 28644 Tucson Az Gender:	Re: adjusting valves loosely or midway? Reply #1 - 07/08/13 at 22:04:22 I'm generally not that fussy... but, looser is better than tighter... If anything,... I'd go a little looser on exhaust... I'd probably shoot for that,.. but I'm lucky to get near speck... There's only 1mm either way... Err,.. on loose... it can't hurt......
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justin_o_guy2

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Re: adjusting valves loosely or midway?
Reply #2 - 07/08/13 at 22:05:11

ive never caught mine tighter after 5,000 miles, early on, before the adjusters pounded down & rounded the pointy tip & work hardened, it got loose by 5,000 miles, like clockwork. after 15,000, they had pretty much finished distorting i guess, last time i checked at 20, they were so close to where id left them i didnt mess with them,
now,, if a seat slips up in the head,, set tight, could burn a valve,,

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keith

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Re: adjusting valves loosely or midway?
Reply #3 - 07/08/13 at 22:37:51

I would not imagine there is much difference in valve clearance between our bikes and any car. As a long time car mechanic I always prefer tight over loose. The reason for this is if you set it at the loosest setting, it could quickly come out of spec. I would be more inclined to go on the tight side, that way they stay within the spec range for a longer period of time.

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oldNslow

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Re: adjusting valves loosely or midway?
Reply #4 - 07/09/13 at 18:09:41

kuri77 wrote on 07/08/13 at 20:33:18:

Owners of KLR650s like me are adjusting their valves to the loosest recommended tolerance since they tighten up as the engine wears. Is the same thing recommended for our Savages or are we looking for middle of the loose-to-tight spec range?

I'm probably gonna start trouble here but here goes anyway.

IMHO if the valves are anywhere within the range just leave them be and don't worry about it. If you give six guys a set of feeler gauges and tell them to measure a clearance between O.003in and 0.005 in you'll be lucky if two of them agree. Folks get a little bit nutso about valve lash IMO. Unless you're dealing with a highly stressed high reving race engine, close is good enough.

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Charon

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Re: adjusting valves loosely or midway?
Reply #5 - 07/09/13 at 19:59:50

Personally, I shoot for the middle of the range, but I'd prefer slightly loose instead of slightly tight. Even out of tolerance about the only bad effect from loose is more noise. A tight valve might just possibly keep the valve from completely seating. A valve that doesn't seat completely will run hotter, because it can't transfer heat through the valve seat. And hot gasses from combustion will blow past the not-completely-seated valve, causing burning of the valve and seat. You pays your money, and you takes your choice.

I don't know enough about performance issues, but a tight valve will open sooner, close later, and have a longer duration. A loose valve will open later, close sooner, and have shorter duration. It is claimed that this can result in moving the torque peak a hundred rpm or so, as well as changing its magnitude. Lotsa luck trying to demonstrate it.

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kuri77

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Re: adjusting valves loosely or midway?
Reply #6 - 07/10/13 at 10:54:55

keith wrote on 07/08/13 at 22:37:51:

I would not imagine there is much difference in valve clearance between our bikes and any car. As a long time car mechanic I always prefer tight over loose. The reason for this is if you set it at the loosest setting, it could quickly come out of spec. I would be more inclined to go on the tight side, that way they stay within the spec range for a longer period of time.

This is what I was afraid of. Two directly opposing views. Some say a little looser and you say a little tighter (not that I'm disputing you, just noting the opposite views). With my KLR650 it's universally accepted to go to the far end of the loose tolerance as the valve clearance tightens over time/mileage. I'm not sure enough of the Savage motor as to whether it does the same or the opposite. Once that's cleared up then my route is clear. Can anyone say for sure which it is? Thanks to all who replied.

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Re: adjusting valves loosely or midway?
Reply #7 - 07/10/13 at 11:10:52

The fact that you are getting opposing views is not a bad thing.....it proves that it really doesn't make much difference. No one has burned a valve that I am aware of, and most failures are related to loose cam chains, someone that has run their bike low on oil, bikes that have sat with fuel in them for too long, or people that overtighten the small 6mm head cover bolts.

Me.......I adjust my valves so the 0.003 feeler gauge slides through - but a 0.004 won't. It runs just fine.....and yours will to.

Don't sweat the petty stuff.......your Savage doesn't.

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apache snow-FSO

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Re: adjusting valves loosely or midway?
Reply #8 - 07/10/13 at 11:13:28

I set mine on .004. Motorcycle valves as they wear recede into the valve seats causing the stems to stick up more reducing valve clearance. So its never good to set them too tight. This is the general consensus on all the motorcycle forums and my experience in 50 some years adjusting valves.

There are some with different views but I would say they are in the minority. Also you can't compare them to car valves as many of them have hydrulic lifters.

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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28884 L.A. California Gender:	Re: adjusting valves loosely or midway? Reply #9 - 07/10/13 at 11:46:34 really, just adjust them between the specs, just try to get both (left and right) the same. At some point, you'll be the aficionado tuning your valves by ear.
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kuri77 Full Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 127 Rancho Santa Margarita, Ca Gender:	Re: adjusting valves loosely or midway? Reply #10 - 07/10/13 at 11:57:10 Well thanks for all the replies, guess I'll give it a go them.
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arteacher Serious Thumper Offline Ride as if your naked and invisable! Posts: 2581 London ontario Gender:	Re: adjusting valves loosely or midway? Reply #11 - 07/10/13 at 13:08:31 Kind of an aside, but I used to adjust the valves in my cars while the engine was running, for two reasons: the engine was at operating temperature, and it was easier to "feel" the gauge as it was sliding between the stem and the rocker arm. Can't do that with our bikes, though.
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apache snow-FSO Serious Thumper Offline Posts: 509 Gender:	Re: adjusting valves loosely or midway? Reply #12 - 07/10/13 at 13:11:47 Motorcycle valves in every manual I have ever read specifies to adjust the valves when cold.
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arteacher Serious Thumper Offline Ride as if your naked and invisable! Posts: 2581 London ontario Gender:	Re: adjusting valves loosely or midway? Reply #13 - 07/10/13 at 13:16:13 apache snow-FSO wrote on 07/10/13 at 13:11:47: Motorcycle valves in every manual I have ever read specifies to adjust the valves when cold. Yep- that's because the temps in motorcycle engines vary quite a bit more than car engines, even liquid cooled MC engines.
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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28884 L.A. California Gender:	Re: adjusting valves loosely or midway? Reply #14 - 07/10/13 at 13:40:26 yep, in the dead cold of the morn. not running, kinda hard to adjust with oil flying out at you.
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