SuzukiSavage.com - Gun Control Is Great!

justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Gun Control Is Great! Reply #75 - 07/04/13 at 23:28:53 texas has waiting periods on pistols, i think,, i KNOW papers are filled out, nics is run, even for a shotgun.
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srinath

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Re: Gun Control Is Great!
Reply #76 - 07/05/13 at 06:21:55

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 07/04/13 at 23:28:53:

texas has waiting periods on pistols, i think,, i KNOW papers are filled out, nics is run, even for a shotgun.

BTW the biggest one is in fact montana. TX and SC may be the culprits for sending guns to NYC and chicago and CA but montana is absolutely the easiest - no checks at all.
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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Gun Control Is Great! Reply #77 - 07/05/13 at 07:13:03 well,, hows the crime rate in those places? maybe you should start your thinking processes over, go to where crime is low, use their laws as a model, see how that works.
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Re: Gun Control Is Great!
Reply #78 - 07/05/13 at 07:45:20

srinath wrote on 07/05/13 at 06:21:55:

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 07/04/13 at 23:28:53:

texas has waiting periods on pistols, i think,, i KNOW papers are filled out, nics is run, even for a shotgun.

BTW the biggest one is in fact montana. TX and SC may be the culprits for sending guns to NYC and chicago and CA but montana is absolutely the easiest - no checks at all.Cool.
Srinath.

Wrong - Ncis checks apply to all the states. There are some state that have an exception for folks who posses a state issued concealed carry permit- which means those people have already undergone a STATE background check

Quote:

Background Checks in Montana
Posted on January 2, 2012

Federal law requires federally licensed firearms dealers (but not private sellers) to initiate a background check on the purchaser prior to sale of a firearm. Federal law provides states with the option of serving as a state “point of contact” and conducting their own background checks using state, as well as federal, records and databases, or having the checks performed by the FBI using only the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (“NICS”) database. (Note that state files are not always included in the federal database.)

Montana is not a point of contact state for NICS. Montana has no law requiring firearms dealers to initiate background check prior to transferring a firearm. In Montana, all firearms transfers by licensed dealers are processed directly through the FBI, which enforces the federal purchaser prohibitions referenced above.1Federal law does not require dealers to conduct a background check if a firearm purchaser presents a state permit to purchase or possess firearms that meets certain conditions. As a result, concealed weapons permit holders in Montana are exempt from the federal background check requirement when purchasing a firearm.

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srinath

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Re: Gun Control Is Great!
Reply #79 - 07/05/13 at 07:48:52

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 07/05/13 at 07:13:03:

well,, hows the crime rate in those places?
maybe you should start your thinking processes over,
go to where crime is low, use their laws as a model, see how that works.

There is crime a plenty in those places. It just happens to occour in NYC or chicago.

SC is where criminals get their guns.
If we all had SC gun laws across the country, you'd have very little effect on NYC crime.
If we set the whole country to NYC's gun laws, it will create a reduction - that's my theory.
Montana has gun crime, but you have to realise, there are no people to shoot ... 800,000 people in an area just smaller than CA, 4th largest, and 48th in population density. SC has plenty of gun crime too including the "insane woman" who had a failed attempt @ a school shooting after buying a gun.

Tight gun laws dont work when you can get guns without no questions asked right next door.
Loose gun laws dont work, they put the criminals in charge of the second amendment. For second to work for the law abiding, guns need to be kept out of the hands of criminals. They already have the inclination and element of surprise.

Montana Gun laws will only work in montana. You're likely to get killed by a bear collecting your mail over there.

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Midnightrider Serious Thumper Offline Alliance Member Posts: 3244 Winston Salem, NC	Re: Gun Control Is Great! Reply #80 - 07/05/13 at 12:54:34 Sri you keep talking about the gun laws in SC. I'm less than 100 miles away. What are the gun laws in SC?. I've never heard anyone mention them but you.
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Re: Gun Control Is Great!
Reply #81 - 07/05/13 at 13:02:01

srinath wrote on 07/05/13 at 06:21:55:

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 07/04/13 at 23:28:53:

texas has waiting periods on pistols, i think,, i KNOW papers are filled out, nics is run, even for a shotgun.

BTW the biggest one is in fact montana. TX and SC may be the culprits for sending guns to NYC and chicago and CA but montana is absolutely the easiest - no checks at all.
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Colorado, a neighborhood state passed real insane gun laws, its so bad the movie industries cant bring guns on the set. They're pulling out of Colorado, not to mention all the hunters who come in to big game hunt. They're gonna put 100's of people out of work and the state will lose millions.

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srinath

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Re: Gun Control Is Great!
Reply #82 - 07/05/13 at 13:14:26

Midnightrider wrote on 07/05/13 at 12:54:34:

Sri you keep talking about the gun laws in SC. I'm less than 100 miles away. What are the gun laws in SC?. I've never heard anyone mention them but you.

SC is really loose ... JOG claims they are a NICS state, maybe for law abiding people. Criminals will never go through background checks, so they just give them the guns.
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Re: Gun Control Is Great!
Reply #83 - 07/05/13 at 16:19:25

Quote:

SC is really loose ... JOG claims they are a NICS state, maybe for law abiding people. Criminals will never go through background checks, so they just give them the guns.

Sri,

That's just total BS. ALL states are NICS states - its a federal law. All licensed firearms dealers, regardless of what state they are in, are bound by it. You want a gun, you fill out the form 4473, the dealer calls the database to make sure your name isn't on the list of prohibited persons. If it is, the dealer can't proceed with the sale. Some states have other restrictions above and beyond that, but ALL dealers in ALL states are required to do at least that.

Criminals don't by guns in gun stores even in SC unless the owner of the store is a criminal too. Very few of them are, and the ones that do break the law get caught pretty quick. That's just about the only thing the AFT is actually good at. Sorry, but you don't know what you're talking about.

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Re: Gun Control Is Great!
Reply #84 - 07/05/13 at 17:23:06

oldNslow wrote on 07/05/13 at 16:19:25:

Quote:

SC is really loose ... JOG claims they are a NICS state, maybe for law abiding people. Criminals will never go through background checks, so they just give them the guns.

Sri,

That's just total BS. ALL states are NICS states - its a federal law. All licensed firearms dealers, regardless of what state they are in, are bound by it. You want a gun, you fill out the form 4473, the dealer calls the database to make sure your name isn't on the list of prohibited persons. If it is, the dealer can't proceed with the sale. Some states have other restrictions above and beyond that, but ALL dealers in ALL states are required to do at least that.

Criminals don't by guns in gun stores even in SC unless the owner of the store is a criminal too. Very few of them are, and the ones that do break the law get caught pretty quick. That's just about the only thing the AFT is actually good at. Sorry, but you don't know what you're talking about.

OK then explain that case of where a woman bought a gun after pleading insanity in SC. No dont even bother trying to discredit the source. USAtoday ... and a 100 others have em. Right wing ones too.
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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Gun Control Is Great! Reply #85 - 07/05/13 at 17:37:53 you want to use one womans getting a gun,, but you dont think people can make guns illegally? you demand 100%, its not gun na happen. youre unreasonable you ignore facts you have demonstrated sufficient intellect to grasp the points, yet, you will not,, you simply will not budge, regardless of evidence,, screwitt
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Re: Gun Control Is Great!
Reply #86 - 07/05/13 at 18:01:49

Quote:

OK then explain that case of where a woman bought a gun after pleading insanity in SC.

Don't know the case, and I don't know what "after pleading insanity means" unless it means she used that as a defense, and wasn't convicted, in some kind of trial, but the explanation is probably pretty simple. Her name wasn't in the database, and therefore the transaction was allowed to procede.

If she was JUDGED insane someplace, then she lied on the 4473( a federal crime) because there is a question on the form about that. Answer it wrong and you don't get the gun.

Doesn't invalidate anything I said. The law works exactly the way I said it does. Does someone occasionally slip through. Sure. But show me any law that works 100% of the time.

You're the one that implied that the law in SC is somehow different from in other states and "looser". That's just not accurate. There may very well be more crooked gun dealers there, but that's a different issue, and it's not what you said. You said "so they just give them the guns" which is baloney. The ATF will pull a dealers license for recordkeeping errors that don't involve any actual wrongdoing. Do you really believe that a guy running a buisness would just hand out guns willy-nilly and put his livelihood in jepardy? An ATF guy can stop in an FFL dealer's store any time he feels like it and check the paperwork. Dealers go to great pains to make sure everything is in order. Their buisness depends on it.

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Re: Gun Control Is Great!
Reply #87 - 07/05/13 at 18:48:04

For what may be the 10 time -
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/03/06/graham-bill-gun-purcha...

The legislation was inspired by a recent case in South Carolina, where a woman who pleaded guilty by reason of insanity to threatening to kill the president was able to pass a background check and buy a pistol eight years later. She tried unsuccessfully to shoot people at a private school in Charleston last month.

Insanity well, in SC that is just a minor inconvenience.
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Re: Gun Control Is Great!
Reply #88 - 07/06/13 at 06:06:18

Ok. I read the story. Just as I suspected. Her name wasn't in the database of prohibited persons. A failure of the system. The system put in place by the government that you apparently think is the answer to protecting us from everything.

[quoteSC is really loose ... JOG claims they are a NICS state, maybe for law abiding people. Criminals will never go through background checks, so they just give them the guns. [/quote]

The comment above -yours- is still utter nonsense.

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Re: Gun Control Is Great!
Reply #89 - 07/06/13 at 14:57:11

Criminals prefer areas where people tend to be armed less, rather than more. They can ply their trade with reduced occupational hazard when the victims are less able to defend themselves.

I prefer to live in an area where most folks (including the criminals) know the law-abiding citizenry can get all the guns they want. I would feel much less safe in an area where the criminals are fairly sure the law-abiders are not allowed to carry,.. where the law-abiders are victims, not adversaries.

A corollary to this thought,.. the crime rate is always lower in areas where law-abiders can arm themselves easily, and, as you would expect, the crime rate is higher where gun laws make it harder for law-abiders to own guns. This is not rocket science or opinion,.. this is just the way it works. Bad guys go for easy victims, they tend to avoid situations where they might get shot.

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