SuzukiSavage.com - Death by Liquid?

gerald.hughes Serious Thumper ModSquad Offline FSO Posts: 1100 Tucson, Az Gender:	Death by Liquid? 06/12/13 at 17:27:50 I have been told by multiple sources, from mechanics, to shop owners, that all Harley Davidsons will be liquid cooled for 2014. Actually, I was told by these same people that the law will require all street motorcycles to be liquid cooled for 2014. Somehow I don't see Suzuki coming out with a fuel injected, liquid cooled Savage. What think you all?
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apache snow-FSO

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Re: Death by Liquid?
Reply #1 - 06/12/13 at 17:35:54

Havn't heard of such a law. And what would be the reason for it. Harley is looking at cooling for the heads on some of their bikes but who knows the time table. Some say not before 2015. And Harley has NO plans to discontinue their air cooled bikes.

Saw this in a Harley forum..

This came straight from our Harley rep last month.

"There will be a water cooled touring bike in two to three years, but there will ALWAYS be air cooled touring bikes as well. Harley has no plans whatsoever to discontinue their air cooled v-twins."

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oldNslow

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Re: Death by Liquid?
Reply #2 - 06/12/13 at 18:13:16

No such law that I have heard about.

Harley's are selling like hotcakes around here - 3/4 of the bikes I see on the road are HD's. Why would they change ? I could see HD maybe migrating the V-Rod engine into a new model or two, but I don't think the air-cooled bikes are going away any time soon, if ever.

As far as the Savage/ s40's go, I'm amazed that Suzuki is still manufacturing/selling them at all. They are terrific, simple ,inexpensive USED motorcycles, but for the price of a new one I really don't see how they can compete with a lot of the alternatives that are available today.

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ZAR Serious Thumper Offline Rock this town! Rock it inside out! Posts: 961 Kentucky, USA Gender:	Re: Death by Liquid? Reply #3 - 06/12/13 at 19:49:05 I've heard nothin about a law requiring scooters to be water cooled. Does not compute! On the other hand....don't be surprised to see laws requiring all scoots to be fuel injected very soon. Sad to say......the Savage/S40 may soon be hearing the funeral dirge!
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Paladin. Serious Thumper Offline Hamster Posts: 4929 Sunny Southern California Gender:	Re: Death by Liquid? Reply #4 - 06/12/13 at 20:16:40 FI is for emissions. It is not mandated, but FI is easier to get pass emissions. Triumph did it. Royal Enfield did it. Suzuki will do the S40 as well. They will build the S40 as long as it sells.
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ToesNose Serious Thumper Offline Pardon me, do you have Hot Sauce? Posts: 1993 Mooresville, NC Gender:	Re: Death by Liquid? Reply #5 - 06/13/13 at 04:38:43 Yea I fathom the F.I./emissions mandates from an environmental stand point, but on what ground could they possibly stand to mandate the elimination of air cooled bikes?
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Pine

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Re: Death by Liquid?
Reply #6 - 06/13/13 at 06:03:06

ToesNose wrote on 06/13/13 at 04:38:43:

Yea I fathom the F.I./emissions mandates from an environmental stand point, but on what ground could they possibly stand to mandate the elimination of air cooled bikes? Huh

/agreed
I suspect what is being referenced here is that bikes will have to meet emissions, and have cat. I can't see any law forcing any other tech mandate.

However, FI allows for a more precise metering and thus holds the potential to better pass emissions.
Water cooled, as well allows the design to warm up and then maintain a more constant temp. This can be used to help lower emissions (or not).
I suspect someone just threw out there that given the mandate of lower emissions .. that such tech would be given greater (any) consideration to an otherwise stable product. Our Savages are simple... and dirty, the question is would such tech be put in place or would the bike simply be scraped for some new design. (I fear and suspect the later)

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Charon

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Re: Death by Liquid?
Reply #7 - 06/13/13 at 06:57:41

Far as I know, the law (really, EPA/EU regulations) only require meeting emission standards, which also include noise. There is no legal requirement for liquid cooling, fuel injection, or cat converters. It just happens that those are ways to meet emission requirements.

It is also a violation of EPA and probably EU regulations to make any modifications which increase emissions, even if the increased emissions would otherwise be within standards. This includes carburetor rejetting, exhaust and airbox modifications which increase noise, reprogramming fuel injection systems, and so on. Removing the little cover over the idle adjust screw, even if the screw is untouched, technically makes the bike illegal for street use.

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Eschew obfuscation.

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apache snow-FSO

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Re: Death by Liquid?
Reply #8 - 06/13/13 at 08:42:38

Charon wrote on 06/13/13 at 06:57:41:

Far as I know, the law (really, EPA/EU regulations) only require meeting emission standards, which also include noise. There is no legal requirement for liquid cooling, fuel injection, or cat converters. It just happens that those are ways to meet emission requirements.

It is also a violation of EPA and probably EU regulations to make any modifications which increase emissions, even if the increased emissions would otherwise be within standards. This includes carburetor rejetting, exhaust and airbox modifications which increase noise, reprogramming fuel injection systems, and so on. Removing the little cover over the idle adjust screw, even if the screw is untouched, technically makes the bike illegal for street use.

Since motorcycles are exempt from emission testing in my state I will not loose much sleep worrying about it tonight. Wink

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Charon

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Re: Death by Liquid?
Reply #9 - 06/13/13 at 09:21:59

The rules stay in force, whether or not there is enforcement or compliance. They are Federal rules, and the Federales have neither the money nor the manpower to enforce them. The States have no incentive to enforce Federal rules, since they do not collect the fines for the violations. Absent enforcement, there is considerable non-compliance. The enforcement - and subsequent compliance- comes at the manufacturer and original retail levels.

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Eschew obfuscation.

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Greg Serious Thumper Offline Molon Labe Posts: 1251 Southeast PA, uSA Gender:	Re: Death by Liquid? Reply #10 - 06/13/13 at 09:30:57 However, since all our META data is stored, all they need to do is do a search for people who did modifications and come kick in our doors.
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Greg Serious Thumper Offline Molon Labe Posts: 1251 Southeast PA, uSA Gender:	Re: Death by Liquid? Reply #11 - 06/13/13 at 09:32:32 I was watching a video from an electric motorcycle company and they said that the government says they are too quiet. They will need to have them make noise to pass our silly laws.
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apache snow-FSO Serious Thumper Offline Posts: 509 Gender:	Re: Death by Liquid? Reply #12 - 06/13/13 at 09:49:51 We don't require the carbon canister to keep fuel vapors from emitting into the atmosphere. Tennessee does not even require turn signals on a motorcycle. We are one of the free states. we don't really give a rats rear what the federal gov wants.
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Greg Serious Thumper Offline Molon Labe Posts: 1251 Southeast PA, uSA Gender:	Re: Death by Liquid? Reply #13 - 06/13/13 at 10:11:44 apache snow-FSO wrote on 06/13/13 at 09:49:51: We don't require the carbon canister to keep fuel vapors from emitting into the atmosphere. Tennessee does not even require turn signals on a motorcycle. We are one of the free states. we don't really give a rats rear what the federal gov wants. I need to look into Tennessee.
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apache snow-FSO Serious Thumper Offline Posts: 509 Gender:	Re: Death by Liquid? Reply #14 - 06/13/13 at 10:15:29 Oh yeah, we don't have a state income tax either.
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